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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Forget the attributes like sinister and so on, this is exciting research that opens up an entire new spectrum for potential treatments. Some of this was already hinted at in a paper I read in April but the detailed mechanisms were far from clear. This article is about as easy reading as it could be in light of the complexity of the subject, unfortunately, they left out some of the color pictures I saw yesterday in a news flash.

https://www.latimes.com/science/sto...en-more-sinister-than-scientists-had-realized

Here is also a really cool animation of the virus attacking epithelial cells and then fusing with them through enducytosis

 

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Fascinating.

I've had this gut feeling there was some missing mechanism - they way folks symptoms are "lumpy" (asymptomatic, flu like, etc).
And good to know this may lead to more therapies - IMHO therapeutics are a better bet than vaccines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Fascinating.

I've had this gut feeling there was some missing mechanism - they way folks symptoms are "lumpy" (asymptomatic, flu like, etc).
And good to know this may lead to more therapies - IMHO therapeutics are a better bet than vaccines.
Yes, I totally agree. There was an earlier article about how kinases were involved in synthesizing these proteins that essentially turn the primary infected cells into a syncytium but the full extent of the role of these tentacles in not only perforating the cell membranes but also in transporting viral RNA into these neighboring cells was still unknown.

Of course, using kinase inhibitors may have unknown side effects but if there is a specific type that can be identified/associated with the formation of the tentacles then that would be huge. Also there may be even simpler ways now to attack the virus through modified radio-labeled (Tritium) aminoacids that could be applied through ventilators and that would nuke only the cells with elevated incorporation of these amino acids into the tentacles. But that's still science fiction, on the other hand, hey, I am allowed to have dreams :)
 

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Fascinating.

I've had this gut feeling there was some missing mechanism - they way folks symptoms are "lumpy" (asymptomatic, flu like, etc).
And good to know this may lead to more therapies - IMHO therapeutics are a better bet than vaccines.
That depends on the rapidity and severity of onset. There also remains the matter of how much permanent damage is done to organs while waiting for the therapeutics to work.

And then there is that issue of spread.
 

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Fascinating.

I've had this gut feeling there was some missing mechanism - they way folks symptoms are "lumpy" (asymptomatic, flu like, etc).
And good to know this may lead to more therapies - IMHO therapeutics are a better bet than vaccines.
That depends on the rapidity and severity of onset. There also remains the matter of how much permanent damage is done to organs while waiting for the therapeutics to work.

And then there is that issue of spread.
Ref therapeutics?

Sure. There's a wide spectrum of what that means; my only observations (some locked thread or other) where that a life saving therapy - or better - would take the heat out with a few million doses rather than the billions required for a vaccine; and that the barrier of side effects is lower for people who are already sick compared with the whole world population.
So for tackling an emergency, they could be better. Long term a vaccine would be best - as for so many diseases which are still waiting...
 

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And here I thought this was a saxophone forum...
All I know is that's it's shot our work straight to hell. Now they're calling our saxophones "Superspreaders".
Considering the amount of unfiltered air that vocalists emit, this is just another case of uninformed superspreading of disinformation about the "devil's horn" :evil:
 

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There also remains the matter of how much permanent damage is done to organs while waiting for the therapeutics to work.
this thing is so nasty, i fear we may discover the need to be on guard for potential secondary effects that may emerge after the initial infection "clears"
 

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We should be seeing quite a bit of good, emerging, "new" info and treatments in the short term. These are the results of study and experiments that began months ago.

My brother-in-law's lab (all pHd gene research professionals -- hotshots in their field, in one of the two centers for it in the US) hired a medical/epidemiological specialist to consult for their lab's reopening. His job was to survey the available medical and research papers available, and help them determine lab protocols and expected social/political/economic trends in the near and long-term future to determine research projects and structural strategies that should pursue and avoid.

One of the consultant's conclusions was that research was on the brink of a lot of emergent "breakthroughs" in understanding how the virus operates, changes and doesn't, and effective treatments.

While it's natural to obsess mostly over threats to one's own mortality and stress (I'm doing that now, as I type), all along and continuing until there's a vaccine in play, the goal is to avoid overrunning hospitals and, if one is going to get sick, to do it as late as possible because treatments are going to continually improve. The later vulnerable people and less vulnerable people get sick, and the slower the pace of infection, the lower the number of people suffering long term bad-effects (death being only one possible bad effect) will be. (Duh.)

There is a lot of stupidity afoot in our country regarding who does and doesn't distribute good information. Fauci is at the very top of a pyramid informed by not just people martialing numerous figures like the guy my brolaw's company hired -- remember, these are brilliant pHd's hiring these people, not media-addled dummies -- and every bit of useful info filters up to him that can filter upward. Yet barely literate people think they're in a position to judge and deny his expertise. That is the most harmful force in play, right now, the victory and contagion of stupidity.

Anyway, good luck to all. Stay healthy as long as possible. This will indeed, pass. That was another conclusion of the consultant: the likelihood of a vaccine in December or early in 2021 is very high. Whether it will be safe is hard to say, but there should be a functional vaccine on the schedule Fauci suggests. And though it will take time for changes in the economy to reverse trend, in theory "the new normal" could easily return to something close to "the old normal" pretty instantaneously, if not for the changes to infrastructure that have already taken place and will continue to for the next 6 months.

Some good news for people abroad (meaning outside the US): you may be in a better position than we'll be in, inside the US.

The consultant's comment was that China is already preparing multiple production streams for multiple vaccines, separately, in such a way that they can all be converted to produce just one, when one is determined to be the best treatment. The bad news for us, in the US, is that our government's approach appears to be to seek to gamble on one -- to try to determine which is likely to prevail, and increasingly emphasize that, and then gamble on that one. That means the US could get lucky, or it could bank/back the wrong one and then we would be dependent on China, which no doubt will emphasize the WHO, given our recent political moves in the US, to coordinate distribution.;

People will not want to believe a lot of this. Reality doesn't care what we believe or don't, as we are all rapidly being forced to confront.
 

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Interesting.
I'd also bet on announcements of a "working vaccine" by the end of the year - so many promises have been made.
I'm 100% pro vaccine in principle - but I'll be at the back of the queue!
I take you at your word on your response. I feel like the most useful part of the post I last made -- all of which should be taken at face value, because I'm not here to put on airs or distribute false info, I'm just passng along real info from real people because my motivation is to be useful -- is the last 2 par's. Presuming the consultant was on the money -- I would bank on it, and am -- the vaccine situation will depend on where you are. The US, thanks to the idiot pulling the strings, is on the outs with WHO. Immediately, in response to his dumb moves, China upped their support of WHO. The US could get lucky and gamble on the right vein out of the 5 or however many are in play (I do not know the concrete details with certainty (either do you, or most, here), this is 2nd hand info from a dependable, literate, inside, expert source on whose conclusions milliions of dollars of investment rest. China is banking on all of them, creating infrastructure to produce any of the array that proves to be most effective. The US, in disarray, is trying to gamble on just one. That could change. It seems unlikely it will. So, if you're outside the US, rejoice. You almost certainly get access to mass produced vaccines before us. China, if nothing changes, will almost certainly distribute by very publicly enlisting the WHO in a FEMA-like role (despite that through idiocy FEMA is a nonfactor in our own rollout). China will do that to make us in the US look stupid. It isn't that hard, now, to do that, as all of you outside the US well know, at this moment. You are golden. We are gambling. Remember that Fauci is at the top of that pyramid, and he is literate and expert. All the good info filters up through the ranks to reach him. There were like two days where he was exhausted and toed the Trump-lies line about a month or two ago. Other than that, he has found a way to tell the truth, regardless of what the Idiot In Chief effluviated. There has never been the level of cooperation between medical and research professionals that is in play now in the history of humans on earth. As much as they don't know everything, they know a lot. There will be a vaccine. Whether its safe, long term, is another question that can only be measured by diligent research because, unbeknownst to most, that's how science works. It's not a logical equation, it's a practice of experimentation and proving, with adequate sample sizes, that "the sun will rise tomorrow." We'll have a vaccine. But that won't be the end of it. Especially for Americans, potentially.
 

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That it was first treated as a “hoax” and not a disease caused us to lose a lot of ground early on.
It’s been politicized and you know what comes next, monetized.
Scare everybody to the point they’ll pay thousands for a treatment or vaccine.
It’ll be a bigger money maker than cancer ever hoped to be and the drug and insurance companies are licking their chops.
There was no way they’d let a “Medicare for all” candidate have a chance this election. Not while they have us on our knees.
I played my first gig in four months inside a bar last night. Small club and maybe 20 people showed.
We’re screwed.
 

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That it was first treated as a "hoax" and not a disease caused us to lose a lot of ground early on.

I played my first gig in four months inside a bar last night. Small club and maybe 20 people showed.
We're screwed.
Yes, we squandered credibility, and bred skepticism by focusing on "cases" and numbers of testing folks suspected of having it (self-fulfilling data bias). We needed random testing with sampling to understand the range of infection, and the transmission functions.

After four months, we have 12 deaths for healthy persons under 65, of 4.8M. We have 45 deaths for all ages of healthy folks out of 4.8M. We have a total of 1100 deaths for all ages of 4.8M. We have about 1000 hospitalized. Deaths are low numbers for four months that included the peak infection season months. Its safe to say, lethality is low for healthy folks.

Folks figured this out intuitively, as they shared stories of knowing nobody really sick, nobody in the hospital, and nobody that has died. This was counter to the national message that we were all gonna die. Folks concluded, the national news was exaggerated, and not credible. Which in part is true.

BUT, we are in a crisis now. The ICUs are full, and the ERs are now being used for overflow. The choke point is CAPACITY. We only have 900 ICU beds for a population of 4.8M. Now there is a threat for non-virus patients who need critical care.

I did an outdoor gig last night. No effort to safe distance. I tried, and exercised my sanitizer repeatedly. I've also tried to share the situational awareness with our hospital capacity, but only 900 beds for 4.8M is so unbelievable its unbelievable. And, the boy is now crying wolf. I'm going to have to cancel indoor gigs for a while, and probably outdoor gigs too.
 

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Musekatcher where are you located?
This thing is very hard on musicians trying to make a living. If one can they should do some online support via contributions or kind words. I am in Oregon and we opened up a bit and some areas are surging due to increased testing. We have no where near capacity and any hospitals here. Most musicians I know are getting canceled by the venues.
 

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Musekatcher where are you located?
This thing is very hard on musicians trying to make a living. If one can they should do some online support via contributions or kind words. I am in Oregon and we opened up a bit and some areas are surging due to increased testing. We have no where near capacity and any hospitals here. Most musicians I know are getting canceled by the venues.
Southeast. We are probably lagging the first areas hit, but luckily benefiting from Summer months and the typical virus/bacteria behavior.

If we are smart, we will prepare for this fall by increase hospital and facility capacity and work harder to inform the public honestly, and scientifically and statistically, and regain trust and compliance.

I'm very sympathetic with professional musicians. I've bought a few instruments and parts and some music. Performance opportunities are going to be impacted. I've been in crowds that believe in distancing, and I've been in crowds that don't believe it matters, and only going thru the motions, inadequately.

Right now, a large part of the population doesn't trust the same sources that are advocating distancing, and see it as ineffective. Until that is corrected, I don't see a safe way to have gatherings. Our street fest just got cancelled, and there is always plenty of space - but there isn't enough space from those that just don't believe it matters.
 
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