[sax0naut]

There are rumors, that they exist, but I doubt that this one is original:

King Zephyr Silversonic Prototype Tenor VERY RARE- Sterling Bell&Neck- 1952 MINT | eBay

This King Zephyr is a one-of-a-kind custom made or prototype "Silversonic" style horn with sterling silver bell & double socket neck from 1952. As a professional player, this horn is one of the best playing King horns I've ever had the grace to play, having played literally hundreds of them over...

www.ebay.com

The existing ones should be earlier specimen -Zephyr Specials with full pearled sidekeys.
Who should order a „custom" Zephyr Silversonic in times the Super 20 Silversonic is already existing?

In my opinion the bell is simply silverplated, which can be seen on the ring between the bow and the bell, which should be brass and is laquered brass on Super 20 Silversonics.
The same with the posts of the bell keyguards…

The brass ring in front of the neckcork and the brass socket of the octave tonehole on the neck are silvery, too. So I think the neck isn't solid silver, too.

There is no „Solid Silver" or „Sterling Silver" stamp at the front of the bell, but I'm not sure whether all silver bells did have the stamp.

Opinions?

 

[JimD]

The engraving looks wrong and the key cups aren’t engraved which is strange, but it seems to have pearl rollers, but no pearl touches, so who knows if this was some sort of half way version.

 

[GaSax]

Don't know about King Saxophones but a "pro" IMO, should know the difference between silver plated, solid silver or Sterling Silver.

Did Kings in the 50's have adjustable screws on the F and G# keys?

The picture of the serial number is odd. Too focused! Most show the area under the thumb rest when taking pictures of the serial number.

 

[sax0naut]

The serial number might be original, but I am absolutely convinced, that there is no more silver on the horn than the usual silver solder and a silverplate on bow and bell…

Mechanical parts and parts that keep things together aren‘t made out of silver on Silversonics.

 

[Grumps]

There is no „Solid Silver" or „Sterling Silver" stamp at the front of the bell, but I'm not sure whether all silver bells did have the stamp.

I was looking for that as well. If I were interested in bidding... which I'm not... I'd ask the seller if there's such a mark anywhere on the bell.

 

[Manitou]

it could be a solid silver bell or it could be plated, but it's still a zephyr. my issue is more the representation that it's mint condition - clearly not. perhaps in pristine condition, it might be worth the price to a collector, but ...

 

[JayeLID]

Some potential problems with this auction.

Photos are suspect. This is a music store ? Why the heavily edited/altered pics ? (white background, unclear focus).

Never has there been recorded a Zeph Silversonic....has there ?

When did the earlierst Silversonic S20's appear ? How far off is this serial from those earliest Silversonics ?

The bell engraving is just plain ol' usual.

I agree, my guess is she was a standard lacquered Zeph, and the neck tube and bell were plated.

Gotta say, if it is a post-factory whipped up thing....NOT a BAD job on that. I mean, the neck has it's brass elements retained (neckbrace, for instance) and there are no obvious resolder joints.... the seam at bellbrace escutcheon to bell looks clean....and the bell ferrule to bow junction is pretty clean (if the bell were removed you'd perhaps see signs of a resolder at the seam where it goes from silver to brass).

A new owner could confirm the sterling vs. plated aspect easily - have a tech take a buffing wheel to a part of the neck or bell. If after significant buffing of a test area, it isn't showing brass...indeed it is solid.

It'd be interesting to see if there is ANY sign of resolder at the bell brace to body tube junction. The bell brace is brass lacq, so if the bell is original, arguably tehre should have been no resolder at the body tube.

 

[Helen]

Some potential problems with this auction.

Photos are suspect. This is a music store ? Why the heavily edited/altered pics ? (white background, unclear focus).

.....

Well I took a look at a few of the "store's" other offerings, and see that those photos are just as crappy.

That said, I started to notice a pattern. Apparently the person writing up the ad--presumably the owner of Pro Winds and Srings--is "an endorsed artist" (whatever the F that means) for Oleg, Selmer, Theo Wanne, and probably more.

Edit: If the name provided is real and not spoofed, then this is in fact true according to his performer's website.

Me thinks I wouldn't have spent just under 4K on the Zeph that kicked off this thread, but hey, that's just me. I got my killer Zeph from 1950 from Sarge at WWS for 1/2 that price--mind you that was 11 years ago, but I don't think they've gone up that much in value

 

[JL]

Never has there been recorded a Zeph Silversonic....has there ?

I agree, my guess is she was a standard lacquered Zeph, and the neck tube and bell were plated.

+1. Which of course means it's not a "mint" horn, if the plating is not original. And even if original, the lac, while in good condition, is not in mint condition. It appears to be in top playing condition, so would be a nice Zephyr, but certainly not worth Silversonic Super20 prices. The description (rare, mint) sounds like a lot of hype to me.

 

[ptung]

Possibly relevant detail most will not know: sometimes when you remove the dark gold lacquer from lacquered necks and bells on S20s, you will find sterling silver underneath. How I know: I have removed the dark gold lacquer from S20 bells and necks repeatedly. As for the other question, I don't see a reason to hazard a phony-expertise guess without actually knowing what I'm talking about.

 

[GaSax]

The serial number might be original, but I am absolutely convinced, that there is no more silver on the horn than the usual silver solder and a silverplate on bow and bell…

Mechanical parts and parts that keep things together aren't made out of silver on Silversonics.

The serial number may be from an actual King Zephyr but is it from this King Zephyr?

FWIW the saxophone in question is no longer available on eBay.

 

[JayeLID]

Sold for $3800.....according to eFlay.

So the only people in the world that can confirm the truth would be the new owner...and his/her tech.

If it was really sold...

 

[GaSax]

Sold for $3800.....according to eFlay.

So the only people in the world that can confirm the truth would be the new owner...and his/her tech.

If it was really sold...

If it was really sold and the new owner actually gets it.

Does the Zephyrs have matching serial numbers on the neck? If so they don't match on this one.

 

[sax0naut]

Possibly relevant detail most will not know: sometimes when you remove the dark gold lacquer from lacquered necks and bells on S20s, you will find sterling silver underneath. How I know: I have removed the dark gold lacquer from S20 bells and necks repeatedly. As for the other question, I don't see a reason to hazard a phony-expertise guess without actually knowing what I'm talking about.

That's really astonishing and I never ever heard or read of that; there are lots of Super 20 around with fainted laquer. Where are the pictures that show that? There should be others who have recognized that in the last decades?

Of course King laquered some early Silversonics (and Zephyr Spcl. and Super 20 necks) completely with gold laquer, but these are stamped and engraved as Silversonics not as average Super 20s.

Regarding to the Zephyr in question: I think you will never find solid silver feet of the bell keyguard on any of the Kings, will you?

 

[ptung]

[ugh, mods please delete this post if you see it]

LOL I meant this post, not the one above it. But it looks like the other was read by its intended recipient, so all's well that ends well.

 

[JayeLID]

Sorta apropos of this convo, maybe not -

what the heck is going on with this Silversonic bell ????

It's supposed to be sterling, right ? Not plated, therefore sterling silver alloy thru and thru....

...so what is happening here ???

(Saxonaut, apologies, I do not mean to digress your thread....this horn also sold for $3800, which is why I click on it originally)

King Super 20 Silver Sonic Tenor Saxophone 2 Necks! | eBay

There is wear throughout from playing and one key guard needs to be re soldered in place. The sax will likely need a full overhaul to be in top playing condition. Serial number 369xxx.

www.ebay.com

 

[sax0naut]

Sorta apropos of this convo, maybe not -

what the heck is going on with this Silversonic bell ????

It's supposed to be sterling, right ? Not plated, therefore sterling silver alloy thru and thru....

...so what is happening here ???

(Saxonaut, apologies, I do not mean to digress your thread....this horn also sold for $3800, which is why I click on it originally)

King Super 20 Silver Sonic Tenor Saxophone 2 Necks! | eBay

There is wear throughout from playing and one key guard needs to be re soldered in place. The sax will likely need a full overhaul to be in top playing condition. Serial number 369xxx.

www.ebay.com

I think your question is easily to answer.

The Stirling bells, in this case with gold inlays, have been laquered originally by King.
At places of loss of this laquer the silver will oxidate. These are the dark fields you see on the pictures, simply a tarnished unlaquered silver surface, next to a still shiny laquered silver surface.

If the oxidated fields or spots would be polished, this effect faints optically nearly completely, but on the border of the laquer a dark small line of residue of oxidation will last, and every time you polish it overmotivated to get rid of these lines, the laquerless fields will grow.

 

[sax0naut]

ptung, thank you for kindly answering my post.

I just wanted to commit, that I made my suspections not on reading this forum alone.
Right now I still own a Zephyr Spcl., four Super 20s, two more Silversonics, have owned others in the past and seen numerous of them.

But of course I haven‘t seen everything around and can be mistaken in my thoughts, which wouldn’t be for the first time in my life.

 

[1saxman]

You're right, the bell is silver plated. I would guess this was all done during the overhaul/refinish, judging by the engraving which has been rather heavily buffed. The neck may well be Sterling - certainly looks like it with the brass hardware, and Sterling necks were available on the Zephyr Special.

 

[JayeLID]

I think your question is easily to answer.

The Stirling bells, in this case with gold inlays, have been laquered originally by King.
At places of loss of this laquer the silver will oxidate. These are the dark fields you see on the pictures, simply a tarnished unlaquered silver surface, next to a still shiny laquered silver surface.

If the oxidated fields or spots would be polished, this effect faints optically nearly completely, but on the border of the laquer a dark small line of residue of oxidation will last, and every time you polish it overmotivated to get rid of these lines, the laquerless fields will grow.

Thanks...that is the only answer which would have made sense....if the bell was lacquered afterward. I appreciate the reply.