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Factories and Music in China

8K views 29 replies 8 participants last post by  robroyjazz 
#1 ·
My year old Vento sopranino constantly intrigues me. So many sounds and so little time. I am awaiting delivery of a second sopranino (a Saxquest repadded 1925 Conn) for comparison. Hopefully it compares very favorably with the lowly Vento but if it does not, I wouldn't be surprised.

Chinese musical instruments are turning the musical world around. Are there tours to China to visit musical instrument factories? Are these instruments being ambitiously played in China? Are they used in religious services? Secular celebrations? I haven't a clue.

Something is driving me to somewhere in China. Where is it? Rob
 
#2 ·
My year old Vento sopranino constantly intrigues me. So many sounds and so little time. I am awaiting delivery of a second sopranino (a Saxquest repadded 1925 Conn) for comparison. Hopefully it compares very favorably with the lowly Vento but if it does not, I wouldn't be surprised.

Chinese musical instruments are turning the musical world around. Are there tours to China to visit musical instrument factories? Are these instruments being ambitiously played in China? Are they used in religious services? Secular celebrations? I haven't a clue.

Something is driving me to somewhere in China. Where is it? Rob
There is a church in HuaiAn, Jiangsu province (where Billy Graham's wife grew up) that occasionally had instrumental performances in church, but I never saw a saxophone played in the church. The Catholic church in my city doesn't feature any wind instruments in its services as far as I know.

Most of the public performances and parades that I've seen here in China featured drum-and- bugle marching bands. Saxophone IS taught in at least some universities' music departments. In fact, the dean of the music department at Yangzhou University is a saxophonist (as of 2009).

Outside of the top-tier cities in the PRC, you aren't likely to find many new saxophones for sale, if any.

You can visit Taishan Wind Instruments in Shandong province. Contact Jennifer Liu at this website: http://www.made-in-china.com/sendInquiry/shrom_lMbnPUEJumDC_lMbnPUEJumDC.html

Or Contact Alan Liu (no relation) at : Tianjin Xinhaidi Musical Instruments in Tianjin. (They're mostly a wholsaler).

http://xinhaidimusic.en.made-in-china.com/#page4

Good luck.

You'll have a better chance of getting a tour if you go with a group. I know of no groups that sponsor tours specifically to visit manufacturing facilities. Maybe an NAMM member can advise you better about tour groups.
 
#3 ·
Something is driving me to somewhere in China. Where is it?
Just north of India.

I've always wanted to go there too, but I doubt there are saxophone factory tours, although I'm sure it would be very interesting, and quite an eye opener for the many people who don't realise exactly how much hand making goes on there as opposed to mechanised manufacture.

I think best way to get a factory visit would be to first go to a large trade show such as Namm or Musikmesse, meet and chat with all the reps from the Chinese companies and let them know you'd like to visit, I'm sure some of them would be happy and honoured to arrange something. I would narrow it down to the manufacturers who (a) make good instruments (some don't as we know) and (b) the friendliest reps, probably with the best command of English unless you intend to learn Chinese fluently. If you are going to visit, then it's worth learning at least some rudimentary phrases.
 
#4 ·
Thanks both. Pete Thomas, I see you have a 1924 Conn Sopranino? I think the serial # is rather close. I will keep the world posted to provide my meaningless comparison between my "new" 1925 Conn and the venerable Vento, when I get it. Hurry Mr. Postman.

I know that the China thing is just a pipe dream...no pun intended. My concept of things unknown often become romantically skewed. But what about Tibet? No, if I go anywhere it will be with a loving wife, who has no notions of exploring Chinese music factories when there are wineries in France that have yet to be visited.
 
#11 ·
I hear these stories a lot. If you wife doesn't have the same interests, then what is the point of marriage? I don't get it.

You open a can of worms there. My marriage is extremely happy. But it is new and I fit into any situation rather well. The point of marriage is something to the lady. They want it and I am a romantic who thinks he can have it all. Music and my wife. I do have both. On a home on a hill in the prettiest place in the world. So, we can go to France and catch the Beaunne Jazz Festival in late summer. Never been there to do it but missed it by a week. That is a bucket list item. In France, they make homemade music, I am sure of that. Bring your (little) horn into a club, you are virtually un-noticed. My set up is two canvas bags, professionally made with the horn inside the inside bag. Lowly Vento has been traveling a year that way and still seems to be in tune for my tin ear.
 
#12 ·
Not many Erhus, Jing-Hus and Liuqins are made in Paris. That is what you should be visiting the "factory" of and buying in China. Try to avoid tourist rip-offs. I would hire a fixer/translator and visit the countryside

In other words, my concept of a "factory" is not what the instrument is about. It is made in a place like my dad's old body shop, ten or so person, each of whom take pride in his/her own talents? Is that what you are saying? So these instruments are not made in a dank large factory? That makes sense.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I'm slow. Re: Chinese Instrument Making

Why are there good ones and bad ones? Personal interest by the craftsman making it or a family tradition, as one might associate with the European instruments, especially saxophones?

By the way, the 1925 Conn Sopranino came in. My lord, what a wonderful world this is. More than I could ever have hope for. The Vento knows he ain't in the starting line up. Maybe drunken parades or a teach someone else's child instrument. I would never part with it...not yet.

Re: The CONN. I love how the left hand works. It is tilted about 10 degrees clockwise compared to the Vento. Much better for me and my hand length is relatively short. The B flat key is bigger with more spacing for my Polish size 10 fingers. Playing left hand B flat easily was worth the price to me. I always hated going there. I tried every alternate figuring possible. It was never right. Always an issue. Never never land. Ick, ick, ick. Not now.

And the deep notes are deep. I can deep growl and sound like a sax, not some electric piano tuner. Etching? I heart nineteen twenty-five. The ordinary Conn etching is now extraordinary by definition. Floral with all the important information. When states were given three letters (lND) and USA was proudly written by a man (probably from Indiana) as "U.S.A." complete with the periods. I'm going to play some patriotic song for him when I post this. Not Indiana though.

Silver is clean and absolutely beautiful. I have to figure out what kind of silver polish is good, especially in this climate. Mr. Minor (love that name) at Saxquest had them do a wonderful cleaning job. And re-padding was perfect, as far as I can tell. But I have a tin ear.
 
#16 ·
I'm slow. Re: Chinese Instrument Making

Why are there good ones and bad ones? Personal interest by the craftsman making it or a family tradition, as one might associate with the European instruments, especially saxophones?
This issue was discussed with unusual rigor and clarity recently by Ptung.

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...etter-option&p=1454960&viewfull=1#post1454960

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...etter-option&p=1454969&viewfull=1#post1454969

Of course, if you don't like the "beaten path" of logic, common sense, and experience, you can always take solace in chop logic, rhetoric, and political correctness.
 
#19 ·
I like the bumper sticker finish. Kind of like coming back to the root note. I need a new photo for this blog page with the new nino. The one the world now sees in this blog was taken on Day Three with my new(ish) Keilwerth SX90 Soppy. A honeymoon with a new horn. What a joy we share. The Catskills can't compare. rr
 
#21 · (Edited)
I want to say Germany but I think that is the wrong answer. Re-thinking, I assume China. What's not made in China?

I'm not interested in Chinese horns, you write? Of course I am. That's why I asked the question in the first place. But not from a marketing standpoint. Rather from a tonal and cultural perspective. I'm interested in all sounds. I think of China as a place where prettier notes can be found. The small amount of Chinese music that I know seems to appreciate the fact that there are many tones between an A a B. Anyplace that gave us a Buddhist and Hindu religion must have an appreciation for sounds. That's what I wondered. Is there a relationship between those who make the horns, the horns themselves and the people who want to hear certain types of sounds.

The tree frogs are "chirping" where I live right now. They are tiny. They will do it until midnight. One of the frogs is making a tone that quietly reverberates on two bottles in a room near the bush outside. The window are open. I try to understand why the tree frog makes this mimicking sound (not unlike a bird sound) and whether there is another frog involved. Of course there is a man vs. nature thing going. A manno froggo competition. The frog can make ringing sounds that I can't. That keeps me going.

At least I have the horn that can do it. Yes, it is US and I like it very much but I don't have a generalized feeling about Chinese horns. My lord, it is about 5% of the usable land surface of the planet. A lot of people a lot of potential. My Conn is a very effective and reliable horn. Not unlike my dad's Hudson. That's all that I want, now.

I have no preconceived notion about Chinese horns. :line6:r
 
#22 ·
I want to say Germany but I think that is the wrong answer. Re-thinking, I assume China. What's not made in China?

I'm not interested in Chinese horns, you write? Of course I am. That's why I asked the question in the first place. But not from a marketing standpoint. Rather from a tonal and cultural perspective. I'm interested in all sounds. I think of China as a place where prettier notes can be found. The small amount of Chinese music that I know seems to appreciate the fact that there are many tones between an A a B. Anyplace that gave us a Buddhist and Hindu religion must have an appreciation for sounds. That's what I wondered. Is there a relationship between those who make the horns, the horns themselves and the people who want to hear certain types of sounds.

The tree frogs are "chirping" where I live right now. They are tiny. They will do it until midnight. One of the frogs is making a tone that quietly reverberates on two bottles in a room near the bush outside. The window are open. I try to understand why the tree frog makes this mimicking sound (not unlike a bird sound) and whether there is another frog involved. Of course there is a man vs. nature thing going. A manno froggo competition. The frog can make ringing sounds that I can't. That keeps me going.

At least I have the horn that can do it. Yes, it is US and I like it very much but I don't have a generalized feeling about Chinese horns. My lord, it is about 5% of the usable land surface of the planet. A lot of people a lot of potential. My Conn is a very effective and reliable horn. Not unlike my dad's Hudson. That's all that I want, now.

I have no preconceived notion about Chinese horns. :line6:r
If you're interested in microtones, try looking for a few of the double reed instruments played in China: laba, haida,and the suona. They're basically the same instruments. Of course, there will always be those who will express vitriol over the massive influx of the Cheap Chinese Oboe into the west.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Hi -- I google imaged each of the three instruments and hit well with the suona. Yes, I remember something like that making a loud harsh sound at some event seen in t.v. or the movies. That lead me to a very nice site out of the Chinese Tourist bureau in Australia. Quite a bit of space devoted to many things cultural, including instrumentation. There I found a few names of composers, one who did a Concerto for the Suona.

I picked up some different music out of France that is enjoyable but for the suona, I am at a dead end. Nothing found on Amazon or I-tunes. The search will continue. Thanks for the lead. The good suonas are very pretty and the double reed seems like an interesting concept for this type of horn. It can't be that difficult to at least make a noise, is it? rrk p.s. Should I be using the term "oriental" anymore? Is that now somehow dated or unsophisticated?
 
#24 ·
robroyjazz;1636499 Should I be using the term "oriental" anymore? Is that now somehow dated or unsophisticated?[/QUOTE said:
Oriental (on the face of it) just refers to the far east in relation to Europe. It isn't used solely in this sense anymore. Some seem to think that the word is more of a putdown than a real description. To me, it's just an antiquated and vague description of something of or from the "Far East", in the same way in which "occidental" refers to the western world and its culture(s), though "occidental" seems to appear more often as a literary term. It's used less and less as well, though it still appears in Holman's "Handbook to Literature" (Nope, I didn't google that. I own three editions of the publication).

"Asian" works for everyone, including Asians. It evokes fewer negative connotations for some.

And it is much less offensive than saying "ch**p Ch*n*se saxophones".

For some info regarding Chinese musical notation, you can wiki it and find that at least ONE form is numerical and dates back to the Tang Dynasty. I've seen kids and older adults playing the erhu/erfu in the park and reading from a system quite different from what Wiki describes (pianju). I'll check with a couple of friends and pm you if I find something relevant.
 
#25 ·
I think best way to get a factory visit would be to first go to a large trade show such as Namm or Musikmesse, meet and chat with all the reps from the Chinese companies and let them know you'd like to visit, I'm sure some of them would be happy and honoured to arrange something. I would narrow it down to the manufacturers who (a) make good instruments (some don't as we know) and (b) the friendliest reps, probably with the best command of English unless you intend to learn Chinese fluently. If you are going to visit, then it's worth learning at least some rudimentary phrases.
I've been living in China three years now. There are in fact good saxophones made here, as well as other instruments. There are also, of course, horrible awful instruments, too. I have a little curved soprano that is such an accurate copy of a yanagisawa sc992 that I could probably cannibalize either one for parts for the other. Now, my Yanagisawa SC992 does play better than the copy, but the copy plays well, and costs a fifth the price of the name brand.

The manufacturers are pretty much spread all over the map. I've met some from Shandong, some from Beijing, some from Wuhan, and others from the southland.

But if you want to meet more than one or two of them, I'd recommend the Palm Expo trade show in Beijing, which is held in May every year, or a similar show in Shanghai that's held six months later. Supposedly you should be a dealer to enter, but with any luck you can get a ticket from a sidewalk scalper to get in.

Web site: http://www.iirx-gallery.com/palmexpo2011/

Most of the Western instruments will be in one or two buildings, and you can also check out a lot of erhu, gucheng, suona, etc. etc. and in fact, most of the show is devoted to professional sound equipment, and most musical instruments are housed in a whole separate site, reachable by free shuttle bus from within the main grounds.

The last time I went, I got to try out a no-name straight alto. First time I ever played one of those - it's strange hearing the sound come out around your knees.
 
#26 ·
The manufacturers are pretty much spread all over the map. I've met some from Shandong, some from Beijing, some from Wuhan, and others from the southland.
You're talking about Wuhan (武汉) in Hubei province? I didn't know that Wuhan had a saxophone manufacturer. It's famous for its cymbals. Hmmm... saxophones too. That's a new one on me!

Wait. Are you talking about Hubei Musical Instrument Manufacturing Co.?
 
#28 ·
Your fleugelhorn may be a Jinyin. Awhile back, Jinyin became part of a joint-ownership venture with a non-Chinese company and renamed itself Hebei-Jinyin Musical Instrument Manufacturing Group, Ltd.. I am unsure if it's part of a joint venture anymore. Things change in China overnight, but some things NEVER change.

http://www.jinyinmusic.net/en/index.asp

If it comes up in Chinese, press the ENGLISH button, and most of it will appear in English.
 
#29 ·
Thank you very much for your information and link - you have very good knowledge of china factories, and you are very helpful! :)

Yes, I think it is from the same factory that makes Jinyin, because the look and design is exactly same as Jinyin's flugelhorn, and the price is also close to Jinyin's. It seems like some US importers previously imported the same horn under the "Image" brand, and Dillon Music also offered what looks like the same horn, but their price is double that of Jinyin's. This horn seems to be a copy of the Yamaha YFL-6310. I was impressed with the quality and sound of this horn.
 
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