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This is something my wife is going thru. As one ages, the back of the gel part of the eye can become detached. Apparently PVD is is very common and most people don't even know they have have it. When it comes on, one frequently experiences many floaters and may see flashes of light. Usually these symptoms go away within a few months.

Her ophthamologist cautioned her about playing wind instruments. Also advised not to bend over not pick up anything heavy for a while.

The great news is that there are no signs of retinal detachment, which was our major concern!

Have any other players out in sotw land experienced this and if so could you share your experiences? We are wondering if she ought to totally stop playing for a while or just cut back or just avoid Eb clarinet and soprano sax! She does NOT play oboe. Thanks.
 

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This is something my wife is going thru. As one ages, the back of the gel part of the eye can become detached. Apparently PVD is is very common and most people don't even know they have have it. When it comes on, one frequently experiences many floaters and may see flashes of light. Usually these symptoms go away within a few months.

Her ophthamologist cautioned her about playing wind instruments. Also advised not to bend over not pick up anything heavy for a while.

The great news is that there are no signs of retinal detachment, which was our major concern!

Have any other players out in sotw land experienced this and if so could you share your experiences? We are wondering if she ought to totally stop playing for a while or just cut back or just avoid Eb clarinet and soprano sax! She does NOT play oboe. Thanks.
Why did the Doctor caution her? And why was it only for a little while? Did she have a procedure or does it heal on it's own when you take a break from the added pressure of playing a wind instrument and bending over?
 

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I had a bout with this in one eye, probably exacerbated by being rear ended by a careless driver. No retinal detachment either and I did not curb my playing for it. But it would make sense, especially with a higher resistance horn,if there was a feeling of pressure around the eyes, to avoid playing until it dissipated. I mostly play tenor with a very relaxed embouchure and had no issues and it all went away entirely after a few months as you mention above.
You never have to give up music, there is always something to pivot to and focus on for awhile in place of regular routines. Good luck.
 

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I had a floater for a couple of weeks and thought nothing of it till it opened up to form a black hoop in about an 1/8 of my right eye. I went right in to an eye doctor to get it examined. I did not have to behave any differently. Now I still have a few fragments two years later.
I am sure each case is different. The fact that she sees flashes is very important. I did never did see flashes.
Take care of your eyes and see an eye doctor when something seems wrong. Above all follow their instructions.
 

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This is something my wife is going thru. As one ages, the back of the gel part of the eye can become detached. Apparently PVD is is very common and most people don't even know they have have it. When it comes on, one frequently experiences many floaters and may see flashes of light. Usually these symptoms go away within a few months.

Her ophthamologist cautioned her about playing wind instruments. Also advised not to bend over not pick up anything heavy for a while.

The great news is that there are no signs of retinal detachment, which was our major concern!

Have any other players out in sotw land experienced this and if so could you share your experiences? We are wondering if she ought to totally stop playing for a while or just cut back or just avoid Eb clarinet and soprano sax! She does NOT play oboe. Thanks.
I've got it in both eyes - had it for quite a while. I notice green arcs of lights in my periphery sometimes when backing the car out of the driveway at night when I turn my head rapidly.

I do not understand the issue of playing wind instruments or lifting heavy objects. It's a liquid sac of gel inside another sac of vitreous fluid. Pressure is not the issue - acceleration is. I would be much concerned about sudden accelerations - twisting/turning your head rapidly, bouncing down stairs, jumping off curbs, mountain biking, downhill skiing, etc. Anything that could give a minor concussion could also accelerate the vitreous body enough to further tear the remaining tissue - getting hit in the head with a volleyball or basketball, a punch in the face, etc.

If you bend over or lift slowly, I don't consider it as much an issue as if you were to do the same action with greater velocity.

Disclaimer: I am a scientist, not a medical doctor.

P.S. and OBTW: Floaters are a different issue. I have them too.
 

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Thanks for the replies. Neff, there was no procedure and the doc did not fully explain the concern with playing. From what little I know from reading articles about PVD, it doesn't heal but rather becomes complete. after which the floaters and flashes usually go away.

Dr. G, I agree that sudden accelerations (jerks) would be something to avoid rather than a gentle motion. Have you seen an ophthamologist, and if so did he show any concern about saxophone playing?
 

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Thanks for the replies. Neff, there was no procedure and the doc did not fully explain the concern with playing. From what little I know from reading articles about PVD, it doesn't heal but rather becomes complete. after which the floaters and flashes usually go away.

Dr. G, I agree that sudden accelerations (jerks) would be something to avoid rather than a gentle motion. Have you seen an ophthamologist, and if so did he show any concern about saxophone playing?
I had this happen to me about 15 years ago in both eyes. The floaters were thick as flys and the flashers made driving at nigh dangerous....I already had cataracts causing flares around headlights and streetlights. I went to the Institute Catala de la Retina here in Barcelona, one of the best optometrical clinics here and saw a specialist. They carried out a very simple procedure which is an out patient one where they remove the vitreous from the eyes and replace it with normal sterile saline solution used in all operations. Since the vitreous has collapsed it is at the bottom of the capsule of the eye with all that crap in it. As you move you will see it appearing to fall down from above, because the image is reversed by the lens. They did each eye separately and while they were at it they took opportunity to do my cataract operation at the same time. So along with the old vitreous they removed the old lens and replaced it with an artificial one for distance vision and the saline solution (called Suero in Spanish).

The operation was painless, and the recuperation was about a week plus a couple of days to regain my vision fully except that it was spectacular and I could see like I did when young. The only stipulations were to keep my eyes covered, especially against bright lites and the sun and not to look at the TV. During the second eye operation I was a bad boy and watched TV fixedly too soon and the next day couldn't see anything but a flock of birds in a sandstorm flying around. I thought I was going to be blind but it all went away in a few days and was as good as the first eye. It was one of the best things I did for myself because not seeing well is horrible.

I want to stress, that while I am no doctor, the medical techniques for these things are so advance now that the old saw about waiting till you are old to get your cataracts removed is not only totally invalid but dumb if you follow it. If you have cataracts at age 55, get them replaced with new lenses. While they do it they can see if you have any retinal problems that should be watched and corrected. These days a retinal detachment is easily repaired and prevented if done in time, not . after it is all down on the floor of your eyeball. An ounce of Prevention is worth a Ton of cure.

About a year afterwards I started noticing some haze in my vision and they examined me and said that the rear of the new lenses had to be cleaned off with a laser treatment that they do. This is a common event and only happens once for some reason. Since that cleaning I never have had to do it again and my vision has stayed just as clear as when the operation was done. Of course my aging eye muscles have required larger diopter reading glasses, but that's something due to age and has nothing to do with the issue here.

Again, I want to tell you that if you have this problem, either of poor vision from cataracts alone or due to a Vitreous Detachment, please go to see a good Eye surgeon and have them do what I did. It will give you a new and wonderful view of the world. Why not? Why Wait? It's not going go away or get better on its own, believe me.
 

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Thanks for the replies. Neff, there was no procedure and the doc did not fully explain the concern with playing. From what little I know from reading articles about PVD, it doesn't heal but rather becomes complete. after which the floaters and flashes usually go away.

Dr. G, I agree that sudden accelerations (jerks) would be something to avoid rather than a gentle motion. Have you seen an ophthamologist, and if so did he show any concern about saxophone playing?
Yes, I have seen an ophthamologist, endured painfully bright scans of the interior of my eyes, etc. There was no mention of anything to do with pressure. Acceleration is what causes further tearing of the connecting tissue.

Tim Price had a detached retina around ten years ago .. maybe a little longer, but right around there .
He lost vision in one of his eyes, but seems to be playing all his instruments these days .
A detached retina is a different issue. The vitreous body is a sac of gel anterior to the retina. The order of parts is lens, vitreous body, then retina.
 

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A detached retina is a different issue. The vitreous body is a sac of gel anterior to the retina. The order of parts is lens, vitreous body, then retina.
Exactly. And if the vitreous falls it is because of your age. Now you could just wait around not being able to see anything but dead fish and leaves floating around in there in hopes that your body will absorb all that liquid and replace it with normal lymph, something it will do. But given that being that age also means that you probably have cataracts and maybe even a retina that could detach or at least get winkled, having them do the painless procedure I had done (described above) makes more sense. Not only will you get the gunk suctioned out and replaced with sterile saline.....which will be replaced by your own natural lymph fluid over time.....but the can also check out your lenses and retina. If the procedure is covered by your insurance why wait? Go for it and bring your eyestight back to the way it was when you were young.
 

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Luckily most PVDs are harmless. Any retina specialist and most medically oriented eye docs will have an imaging device called an OCT (optical coherence tomographer).

It’s quick and painless and can define exactly how serious it is in seconds. A PVD can sometimes precede a full on retinal detachment which can be vision threatening.

If you are really nearsighted you chances of a detachment are higher. Aging is also a risk factor for detachments.

As mentioned earlier I’d be more concerned about an impact injury than pressure from playing the saxophone.
 

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I just spoke to a trumpet player who had a different eye issue (retinal tear) that he was told was most likely from playing. This was his second episode, both apparently successfully "lasered" back together. We did a bit of research to try to understand why it would happen. His surgeon gave us the starting point, that playing the trumpet can increase the pressure in the eye.
Let's just stick a name on the process of increasing pressure from the abdomen (diaphragm) while not allowing air out. We'll call it ValSalva's maneuver. We can easily imagine how that is similar to playing a wind instrument. Coughing and sneezing would similarly increase that pressure transiently as would straining with constipation for example this is called Dejerine's triad.
It turns out that that sort of "straining" maneuver can increase the pressure within the eye in some people. Strangely it apparently that the maneuver decreases the pressure within the eye in other people.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8069758
My assumption (I'm no ophthalmologist) is that this is the basis for what the surgeon apparently explained. In my trumpet player's case the retina tore. From this thread I am guessing that the vitreous body may detach via the same mechanism.
Of note is that his surgeon apparently cautioned him against heavy knocks such as occurring should he ride his bicycle over a pothole, consistent with the caution above about sudden accelerations.
Why does Sting's song Fragile come to mind?
 

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Yes, I have experienced it in both eyes. It started with me with lights flashing in the edges of my vision when I looked to the side. It scared the hell out of me. I thought I was having a retinal detachment. I called my doc and got a referral to an ophthalmologist the next day. He did a thorough exam and put my fears to rest. He did advise me that the other eye would most likely go in the next few years and it did. The worst part of this condition is you get a lot of big floaters that move like slow-moving gray clouds across your vision. Over time the brain is able to edit them out but if you think about them like I am now they become very annoying. I don't believe they affect my vision too negatively but I have noticed when I'm on the golf course that the really fine resolution you need to track a golf ball when it's 200+ yards away is affected. When I play with the long hitters that get out near 300 yards the ball just plain goes out of sight. But that could just be because I'm 68 and with or without the detachment my eyes aren't as sharp as they once were.

In response to SaxBass's statement above, I believe my ophthalmologist said the gel inside the eye tends to shrink and decrease in volume with aging. He didn't say anything about pressure inside the eye.

If you ever see flashes in you eye get to an ophthalmologist ASAP. If it's a retinal detachment they can fix it with laser surgery if you get it soon enough. If you let it go you risk losing part of your vision. This is especially true if you see what looks like a curtain blocking part of your vision. That's a retinal detachment.
 

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This is something my wife is going thru. As one ages, the back of the gel part of the eye can become detached. Apparently PVD is is very common and most people don't even know they have have it. When it comes on, one frequently experiences many floaters and may see flashes of light. Usually these symptoms go away within a few months.

Her ophthamologist cautioned her about playing wind instruments. Also advised not to bend over not pick up anything heavy for a while.

The great news is that there are no signs of retinal detachment, which was our major concern!

Have any other players out in sotw land experienced this and if so could you share your experiences? We are wondering if she ought to totally stop playing for a while or just cut back or just avoid Eb clarinet and soprano sax! She does NOT play oboe. Thanks.
First time logging in in years for me to respond to your post. . . I have this as well. I have seen an ophthalmologist (retinal specialist) twice a year for optic neuritis related to my MS, and I note significant floaters and flashes of light to him at each visit. He does not advise me to change any habits except to avoid trauma to the face/head/eyes or situations in which there could be a rapid acceleration of my head. I play on pretty high pressure pieces considering I mainly practice on classical set ups. I can't say if this is related as I lack expertise in this area. I imagine the clarinet will provide more back pressure than the soprano saxophone, at least from my experience.
 

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So let me see if I have this right. Most of you guys who have had this are well into your 60's yet none of you have had the procedure I described? So is this because it wasn't recommned to you by the opthamologist or because the cost of it is too high to afford and or your insurance wouldn't cover it? I'm asking because I can't understand why you would continue to suffer the distraction, inconveniece and downright danger of having to see the world through a miasma of flashers, "big floaters", "floating grey clouds" that make clear vision impossible, and the possibility of an accident at night as a result more likely.

When this happened to me at around 61 I had read about having a storm in your eyeballs and immediately went to the Opthamalogical Clinic ER on Sunday no less. The first thing the head opthamologist there suggested afer they had fully studied my eyes was to have the procedure to remove the fallen Vitreous humour and replace it. I mean, they can't put it back up so why leave it there like plaster that all fell off of a wall from being old and weak? They would have done that anyway without the cataract operation had it not been that I had suffered form the cataracts already and it was in my records there.

So I can't understand why all of you are living with this in a grimace and bear it manner when it is basically a noninvasive procedure done on an ambulatory basis and in fact solves the problem right away with little chance of side effects or negative outcomes. Someone please explain that to me. Are you all just macho guys unwilling to have even a walk-in minor surgery done or what is it? This procedure is commonplace here in Barcelona as is the checking of aging eyes with the OTC machine and all the other tests they do for us old folks. I've had that done a number of times since my first vistis to that clinic 15 years ago. What's going on over there that nobody does this? Are you still back in the 1950's?
 

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Re: Eye Posterior Vitreous Detachment (PVD) - Corrective procedure

Thanks, Michael, for sharing your experience regarding corrective surgery for detached vitreous body. I always wondered what they would do in the event of that sudden flash of light that I was warned about.

If that was indeed 15 years ago, then it must be a mature technique now.

Be well,

George

I had this happen to me about 15 years ago in both eyes. The floaters were thick as flys and the flashers made driving at nigh dangerous....I already had cataracts causing flares around headlights and streetlights. I went to the Institute Catala de la Retina here in Barcelona, one of the best optometrical clinics here and saw a specialist. They carried out a very simple procedure which is an out patient one where they remove the vitreous from the eyes and replace it with normal sterile saline solution used in all operations. Since the vitreous has collapsed it is at the bottom of the capsule of the eye with all that crap in it. As you move you will see it appearing to fall down from above, because the image is reversed by the lens. They did each eye separately and while they were at it they took opportunity to do my cataract operation at the same time. So along with the old vitreous they removed the old lens and replaced it with an artificial one for distance vision and the saline solution (called Suero in Spanish).

The operation was painless, and the recuperation was about a week plus a couple of days...

Again, I want to tell you that if you have this problem, either of poor vision from cataracts alone or due to a Vitreous Detachment, please go to see a good Eye surgeon and have them do what I did. It will give you a new and wonderful view of the world. Why not? Why Wait? It's not going go away or get better on its own, believe me.
 

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I did experience a retinal detachment and re-attachment. It then caused a LOT of floaters and general cloudiness in the vitreous humor. I had a vitrectomy in both eyes, where they replace the clouded gel with saline, and a small gas bubble. The gas is reabsorbed in a few days, and the eye eventually generates its own gel again. During the postsurgical period, I not only couldn't play, I had to lay face-down for over a week. I got a massage table so I could read through the face rest, and I used a mirror to watch TV. I have a pic somewhere of my amazing calico cat, Fantasia, perched on my butt, standing sentinel over me while I healed. I don't remember how long it took for me to be able to blow again, but I eventually was able to. It was a few weeks, I think.
 
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