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I've come across a tenor sax by a German brand called Expression, made in Taiwan. Anyone have any experience with them? It's the same exact model as this listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Expression...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I'll probably go take a look/play, but I was wondering if anyone has ever come across this brand. They don't seem to be distributed in the US, but then their mouthpieces are actually made in the US.
 

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I've come across a tenor sax by a German brand called Expression, made in Taiwan. Anyone have any experience with them? It's the same exact model as this listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Expression...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I'll probably go take a look/play, but I was wondering if anyone has ever come across this brand. They don't seem to be distributed in the US, but then their mouthpieces are actually made in the US.
I've played a couple. - one a friend owned and another one at Frankfurt Musikmesse. For me they are the lower end of the Taiwanese horns - but maybe the models I played were the lower end models! Sorry can't be more helpful.
 

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I've played a couple. - one a friend owned and another one at Frankfurt Musikmesse. For me they are the lower end of the Taiwanese horns - but maybe the models I played were the lower end models! Sorry can't be more helpful.
If you were to come across an example for $850 "like new" with the mouthpiece completely unused, do you think that would be a decent buy for someone trying to get a tenor for <$1,000 that isn't beat up and also isn't a student-level Yamaha (just for something different... I had a Yamaha YAS-52 for 15 years)? I have a baby on the way, other hobbies, house renovations, etc. so I don't think I'm going to be doing any serious playing.
 

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If anyone finds this post, I ended up buying the horn I was talking about, and I'd say it was easily worth the price I paid. The build quality seems very high, and the finish is absolutely gorgeous. It also appears to have a pretty big bell, like a Cannonball Big Bell Stone:
I spoke with the original owner, and the MSRP was ~$3,000 in 2010. I haven't ever owned a tenor before, so I can't go much further beyond that.
 

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It appears this sax is made by the same factory as Sax Dakota / Orpheo. The neck brace and body mount for the table keys give it away.

for examples see https://reverb.com/item/17426107-sax-dakota-sdt-1200-now-sdt-xl-230-tenor-saxophone-silver-plated
and https://reverb.com/item/6493542-orpheo-steve-goodson-model-60s-70s-brass

If you're looking for value, those generally go for around $1k in very good used condition.

Side note: In the early 90s Buffet had an Expression model made by Keilwerth, which is of course a totally different horn than this.
 

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If anyone finds this post, I ended up buying the horn I was talking about, and I'd say it was easily worth the price I paid. The build quality seems very high, and the finish is absolutely gorgeous. It also appears to have a pretty big bell, like a Cannonball Big Bell Stone:
I spoke with the original owner, and the MSRP was ~$3,000 in 2010. I haven't ever owned a tenor before, so I can't go much further beyond that.
I have been learning alto sax on and off for the past few years (following instructors and self taught), can't remeber the last time I touched the sax (shame on me). I thought I would give myself a brand new start again.

Seeing one second-hand Expression tenor saxophone (not sure of the model), the owner has been so nice to tell me that it was bought some 10 years ago, not used much. The buying price was over 1000 and the sale price now is near my budget. So I think it must be a decent instrument to go ahead, just wondering after 10 odd years, is it still playable? Given I am no expert on telling how well the instrument works. Could anyone help please.

Thanks in advance.
 

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I've come across a tenor sax by a German brand called Expression, made in Taiwan. Anyone have any experience with them? It's the same exact model as this listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Expression...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I'll probably go take a look/play, but I was wondering if anyone has ever come across this brand. They don't seem to be distributed in the US, but then their mouthpieces are actually made in the US.
I have been learning alto sax on and off for the past few years (following instructors and self taught by Pete's practice book), can't remeber the last time I touched the sax (shame on me). I thought I would give myself a brand new start again.

Seeing one second-hand Expression tenor saxophone (not sure of the model), the owner has been so nice to tell me that it was bought some 10 years ago, not used much. The buying price was over 1000 and the sale price now is near my budget. So I think it must be a decent instrument to go ahead, just wondering after 10 odd years, is it still playable? Given I am no expert on telling how well the instrument works. Could anyone help please.

Thanks in advance.
 

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I have been learning alto sax on and off for the past few years (following instructors and self taught by Pete's book), can't remeber the last time I touched the sax (shame on me). I thought I would give myself a brand new start again.

Seeing one second-hand Expression tenor saxophone (not sure of the model), the owner has been so nice to tell me that it was bought some 10 years ago, not used much. The buying price was over 1000 and the sale price now is near my budget. So I think it must be a decent instrument to go ahead, just wondering after 10 odd years, is it still playable? Given I am no expert on telling how well the instrument works. Could anyone help please.

Thanks in advance.
 

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So I think it must be a decent instrument to go ahead, just wondering after 10 odd years, is it still playable?
As to what abuse it may have been through despite what the seller says we would obviously not be able to say. While it's always nice to give people the benefit of the doubt (and you can sometimes get a sort of gut feeling when a seller is honest or not) some people can have a different concept of "not used much".

What I can say is the the Expressions I've seen appear to be built well so likely to not suffer merely due to age or normal use. In fact the one quite old one I've seen appeared to have held up extremely well, so (given the caveat above and the fact I/we cannot say online whether that instrument is playable) it would seem an OK punt if the price is good and you trust the seller.
 

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Expression is a brand here in Germany. Manufacturer is Green Hill. They produce for different brands. Seems they market their own horns in Taiwan under the name Tarroko. Here is a link to the homepage of Expression, albeit in German. There are recommended retail prices on the homepage. Deduct around 20 -25 % from that and you have an idea of the actual market prices. As with almost all Taiwan horns, resale value is less than exciting. Nevertheless they are regarded as quality instruments.

https://www.expression-instruments.de/

Alphorn
 

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Expression is a brand here in Germany. Manufacturer is Green Hill. They produce for different brands. Seems they market their own horns in Taiwan under the name Tarroko. Here is a link to the homepage of Expression, albeit in German. There are recommended retail prices on the homepage. Deduct around 20 -25 % from that and you have an idea of the actual market prices. As with almost all Taiwan horns, resale value is less than exciting. Nevertheless they are regarded as quality instruments.

https://www.expression-instruments.de/

Alphorn
Thank you very much for sharing. got some clue now.
 

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Thanks for above, receive enough confidence in the instrument, I suppose I will need to follow my gut feeling and give a go.
 

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Green Hill is not properly a manufacturer as we intend the word manufacturer , as in a company directly owning and controlling production facilities ( as many Taiwanese companies known in the west) more properly they are a Taiwanese trading company which means they buy from their trusted manufacturers and resell, They are one of the largest trading companies on Taiwan. At Frankfurt I’ve met them many times and they had one of the largest booths there.

They specialise in selling saxophones to shops and importers with any name on them. They sell very good 1st quality horns.

Expression saxophones are seen very often on the Dutch secondhand market. They normally don’t excite buyers all that much. In the NL they wouldn’t sell for more than 65% new price and more often than not less than 50%
 

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Green Hill is not properly a manufacturer as we intend the word manufacturer , as in a company directly owning and controlling production facilities ( as many Taiwanese companies known in the west) more properly they are a Taiwanese trading company which means they buy from their trusted manufacturers and resell, They are one of the largest trading companies on Taiwan....
That is surprising if you go by the information from the German sax forum:https://www.saxophonforum.de/ Green Hill is repeatedly cited as manufacturer. There is no indication in the forum that they are only a trading company without own production facilities. Would that place them at the same level as Mauriat, System54, Chateau or any other of the myriad of Taiwanese brands that show up around the globe? Or are they a middle man that provides horns to you with a label of your choice, that might also provide horn to some of the known Taiwanse brands? At least for the well known brands the rational would escape me if there should be an additional trade level between true manufacturer and the brand on the market.

Alphorn
 

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Well, having worked for a Taiwanese company I’ve never known Green Hill to have been anything other than one of the best trading companies (they also sell trumpets and flutes by the way) in the business.

They are very well known and have a great name.

Chateau are made by Tenon which is a maker ( as in owning companies in Taiwan, China and Viet-nam) but also buy and resell saxophones made by others. At some stage I worked for a company which also sold to Tenon and they supplied, for example L.A. Sax .

Mauriat, has, after a few years when they were reselling saxophones, bought a factory where they only made (I don’t know if it is still the case ) only one model, model 76.

There is a lot more to the Industry that meets the eye.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong in being a trading company. As I said they provide probably one of the best Taiwanese choices in the business.
 

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In the NL they wouldn't sell for more than 65% new price and more often than not less than 50%
Interesting you say that -- over the years I've noticed 65% seems to be a magic number for used gear. Saxophones (from Selmer to Selman), model trains, tools, car accessories ... they all generally seem to sell at very close to 65% of the new cost if they're in very good / excellent condition. Add a few scratches / dents / wear and you're at or below 50%. At least that's what I've observed and experienced.
 

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That is surprising if you go by the information from the German sax forum:https://www.saxophonforum.de/ Green Hill is repeatedly cited as manufacturer. There is no indication in the forum that they are only a trading company without own production facilities. Would that place them at the same level as Mauriat, System54, Chateau or any other of the myriad of Taiwanese brands that show up around the globe? Or are they a middle man that provides horns to you with a label of your choice, that might also provide horn to some of the known Taiwanse brands? At least for the well known brands the rational would escape me if there should be an additional trade level between true manufacturer and the brand on the market.

Alphorn
Greenhill the distributor of these saxophones (and many other brands), is a trading company, in a list of Saxophone companies ( divided for Manufacturers and trading companies) they are indicated as " wholesale company"

https://panjiva.com/Taiwanese-Manufacturers-Of/instrument+saxophone
 

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It appears this sax is made by the same factory as Sax Dakota / Orpheo. The neck brace and body mount for the table keys give it away.

for examples see https://reverb.com/item/17426107-sax-dakota-sdt-1200-now-sdt-xl-230-tenor-saxophone-silver-plated
and https://reverb.com/item/6493542-orpheo-steve-goodson-model-60s-70s-brass

If you're looking for value, those generally go for around $1k in very good used condition.

Side note: In the early 90s Buffet had an Expression model made by Keilwerth, which is of course a totally different horn than this.
Bit late to answer this, but in my experience identical parts such as keywork is never actual evidence for being made in the same factory. I believe some Taiwan factories are quite small, and can either outsource supply of some parts to other factories, or share design templates. I can't say in this exact example, it could be the same factory, or it could be a different factory using the same parts or same design of parts. The word "factory" can be a bit misleading as we often think of factories as huge structures with hundreds or thousand of employees whereas they could be quite same family run enterprises that manufacture some but not everything in-house, or merely assemble parts that are bought in.

In general it seems to me that the huge "factory" is more likely to be found in mainland China (e.g. Jin Bao) but generalisations are dangerous as there are also the small business in China that are more like the Taiwan model and can produce anything equal and above Taiwan quality. And then again there are factories that outsource production to local villagers to do in their own house - a very efficient manufacturing mode as no factory floorspace is taken up.

And agin, the proliferation of trading companies/wholesalers mean the the factories can be smaller due to the fact they concentrate on manufacture rather than dealing with distributors or marketing. Think of them as just one aspect of a factory that has been outsourced. In the case of Asian companies its also useful in that they will need to have people who speak various wester languages - agin the factory can just get on with what they do well - ie making things.

I think milandro is very well informed on these things having been commercially involved, something I have not yet actually done myself but have been researching with a view to being involved. having said that things have changed rapidly in the last few years, even since the last time I visited Namm or Musikmesse.
 

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As far as I know the only huge factory operation on Taiwan is the one run by K.H.S. ( Jupiter).

They are truly the only industrial operator on the Island and the have a tradition in instruments making which goes back to the ’30. They were, as importer of the Yamaha products, the ones whom consulted with Yamaha when they decided to enter the saxophone production. Yamaha bought a Japanese factory, Nikkan Gakki, which belonged to some of the people which then gave birth to Yanagisawa.

The Taiwanese production is of small companies generally specializing in the production of a part of the range of the saxophones (sopranino, soprano, alto, tenor, baritone) but to my knowledge no company aside from k.h.s. ( they don’t make sopraninos I think) produces the entire range.

This is a very different operation than the Chinese production philosophy. Although trading companies proliferate in China too, most large musical instruments corporations tend to look like Yamaha or K.H.S. if anything in as much that they produce a very large range of instruments.

In China the production of musical instruments is generally treated like the production of anything else. High output at a very competitive price. Even in China they buy Taiwanese instruments ( and Japanese ones) knowing that the higher price corresponds to a smaller scale and higher accuracy.

The role of a trading company (like Greenhill) is to select the makers and insure quality of output.
 

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I just bought an Expression 2000 Pro Alto in Black lacquer and sterling silver plated keys and should be receiving it today. I will post my impressions soon.
 
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