[Roger Aldridge]

Clarinet Buddies,

As many of you will recall, I've been using Legere reeds exclusively for the past couple of years. I'm also a big fan of Ralph Morgan mouthpieces. However, I sadly discovered that for whatever reasons Legere reeds do not work well on Morgan clarinet mouthpiece facings. At least, that has been my experience. That is why I switched to Walter Grabner's clarinet and bass clarinet mouthpieces around a year ago. Legere reeds that sound terrible on Morgan clarinet mouthpieces sound stunningly beautiful on Grabners.

So, as an experiment I recently purchased a used Morgan RM06 from a Forum buddy and sent it to Walter Grabner for refacing. The object being to see if Legere Quebec reeds can work better on the RM06 after Walter made adjustments to the facing.

Here are the results:

1.) Legere Quebec reeds (I tried #3.25 and #3.5 strengths) DO work better on the refaced RM06 than before. Control is significantly better as is the quality of sound. However, I'm not happy enough with my sound on the RM06 to make me want to switch back from the Grabner Kaspar style mouthpieces I'm using. With the RM06 my sound is on the brighter side than what I want and not as big and vibrant. Whereas, with a Grabner K11 my sound is darker, bigger, rounder and much more vibrant. It fills up with room with sound without breaking a sweat. Simply put, Legere reeds really come to life on my Grabner mouthpieces.

2.) One very obvious difference between a Grabner K11 and the refaced RM06 is the length of the window. Note: Walter did not make any changes to the RM06's window length. The length of the Grabner K11 window perfectly matches the vamp length of my Legere reeds. Whereas, the length of the Morgan window is considerably SHORTER. I cannot help but think this is a contributing factor in why I don't get good results with Legere reeds on Morgan clarinet facings.

3.) In conversations I had with Ralph Morgan several years ago about clarinet mouthpieces and reeds I remember that he had a good opinion of Vandoren Black Master reeds. It's been 6-7 years since I last used Black Masters. It's possible that Black Master MAY have a short vamp length than Vandoren Traditional or V12 (Legere Quebec is roughly comparable to V12). If so, then Black Master might be a much better reed than Legere for the RM06. The next time I'm at the local music shop I'll pick up a box of Black Master and see.

4.) It's my gut feeling that Legere reeds are less forgiving when it comes to facing/window differences than cane reeds. I was quite happy with Black Master and (for a longer period of time) Alexander Classique reeds on Morgan RM28 and RM10 mouthpieces. That said, I'm much happier now with Legere Quebec reeds on my Grabner Kaspar-style mouthpieces. There's something about a Kaspar and a thick cut reed that really does it for me.

Anyway, gang, these are the results of my experiment so far. For me, it points to the importance of having a good match between the length of the reed's vamp and the mouthpiece facing and window length.

Comments?

Roger

 

[dirty]

Roger, just curious, how do you find the Legere Quebec reeds compare to the Vandoren V12, in terms of strength and tone? Have you ever A-B'd V12s with the Quebec on your Grabner?

I'm tired of buying V12s and having every reed in the box play at slightly (sometimes extremely) different strengths. I usually get most of them to work well enough for practicing at least, but I feel like every time I take a reed out of the box, I have to learn its peculiarities and tendencies, more so than on any other horn. It would be nice to have a reed that's going to be the same (or pretty damn close!) all the time.

 

[Bootman]

You will need to scrape your V12 reeds, most reeds never work well straight out of the box. I have yet to find a Synthetic reed that works well, there are always limitations imposed when you use a Synthetic reed. They do cause embouchure changes and the switch back to cane can take much more effort than you would desire.

 

[dirty]

You will need to scrape your V12 reeds, most reeds never work well straight out of the box. I have yet to find a Synthetic reed that works well, there are always limitations imposed when you use a Synthetic reed. They do cause embouchure changes and the switch back to cane can take much more effort than you would desire.

Yeah, I need to get back into a reed working routine. Now that school's back in session (28 units!) I just don't have the time I had over the summer to devote to reeds. I'm starting to think I should make some time, though, since I know it will save me a lot of frustration and time (time spent cursing at my reeds, that is).

I've found that the Legeres I've tried (never quite found the right strength) have a good tone, and on long sustained notes, I can get them to sound as good as a good cane reed. The area where they've always bothered me is articulation. The attack always seems more percussive, and in fast, staccato passages they really start to sound like plastic to me. I had one on my mouthpiece in my lesson once, and my teacher, without seeing the reed or my mouthpiece, told me to take the plastic reed off!

Still, though, I like the idea of a reed that will last a long time, not get waterlogged and always be the same!

 

[Roger Aldridge]

Dirty,

A #3 V12 plays slightly softer than a #3 Legere Quebec. The last time I tried cane reeds again on clarinet it was comparing V12 and Gonzales FOF. I preferred FOF to V12. Gonzales is more consistant than V12 and they are graded (like Legere) in quarter strengths. I also liked the quality of sound and overall performance I got with FOF better than with V12. That said, strange as it may seem to some, I really love the Legere Quebec reed.

Bootman,

I have to disagree with you about Legere. I've been using them for more than 2 years now and I'm extremely happy. The trick for me, as I indicated above, is matching Legere to the right mouthpiece facings. After a bunch of trial & error and finally finding the facings that work for me the sound of Legere reeds opened up like a rose. (sorry at my painful attempt to be poetic....but it's true) The sound of a Legere Quebec on a Grabner Kaspar is the clarinet sound of my dreams.

You are right about the effort it can take to adapt to synthetic reeds. It took me several weeks to adapt my chops to Legere. But, once I did I was home free. I don't have any problem playing on cane reeds when I want to. It's just that whenever I do I haven't found a cane reed that I like better than Quebec. Now, if someone lays some authentic late 60's Morre reeds on me I might change my mind! ha ha ha

Roger

 

[clarnibass]

I've tried more Legere reeds lately and found they don't work for me, at least not on my mouthpiece (I tried only with my main mouthpieces). The only part that felt "weird" was how smooth they were and I had to get used to them a little. I really didn't notice any difference from them being plastic. I decided not to use them the same as I decided for many cane reeds I have tried, just didn't give me as good reponse as the Vandoren V12. One Legere costs a little less than a box of cane reeds so I think in the long run the Legere is a cheaper road but isn't that big of a difference, and since I don't do any of the things I've read other do with reeds (rotate, adjust, break in, etc.) I have the same no hassle wiuth cane as with Legere. But that's for the other topics here.

Back to the first topic, Roger, you say Legere works better on your Grabner mouthpieces than Morgan mouthpieces. If the Legere worked better on the Morgan after Grabmer refaced it that sounds very logical to me becauee Grabner probably refaced it to be more like his own mouthpieces.

 

[stevesklar]

Now, if someone lays some authentic late 60's Morre reeds on me I might change my mind! ha ha ha

I think I have everything else but those
Lelandais, SML, Charpin, Selmer, Vandoren, E. Pichard, Prestini, Betcha, Futurity, Luellen, Black LIne, Chiron Vibrator, Populaire, Stereo, M. Lacrioux, Olivieri, etc etc etc

but no Morre

 

[Roger Aldridge]

Claribass,

Walter did not want to change the nature of the RM06 when he refaced it. That is, he did not turn it into a Grabner facing. He basically "tightened up" the facing (as he described it to me).

Besides the difference in the window length, there are other differences that can easily be seen between the RM06 and a Grabner Kaspar just by eyeballing the mouthpieces. The window width at the tip of the RM06 is smaller. Also, Walter's Kaspars have thicker side and tip rails than the RM06.

Walter states that his mouthpiece facings are made for TODAY's reeds. He describes how he "optimizes" his facings for V12, Gonzales, and Legere reeds. Other reeds work perfectly fine on them as well. However, it appears to me that Morgan clarinet facings were designed for an older style of reed...one with a shorter vamp length. As I mentioned before, I found cane reeds to be more forgiving on a Morgan.

Roger

 

[stevesklar]

Walter states that his mouthpiece facings are made for TODAY's reeds. He describes how he "optimizes" his facings for V12, Gonzales, and Legere reeds.

Roger,
it would make perfect sense for me to actually compare modern vs vintage reeds since I happen to have a ton of them.

 

[Roger Aldridge]

Steve,

You read my mind! I was just thinking about asking you to do that.

If you don't have a Legere Quebec reed, a V12 should be reasonably comparable.

Please let us know what you find.

PS, One thing that's curious to me is the window length on a Morgan tenor mouthpiece perfectly matches the vamp length of a Legere reed. Thus, I cannot understand why the window length is so much shorter (in relation to reed vamp length) on Morgan clarinet pieces.

Thanks, Roger

 

[Isle of Jazz]

I find it difficult to gauge any but the most obvious visual differences in clarinet mpcs because they are so small compared to saxophone mpcs! I notice that the throat is more straight sided in the K13 as opposed to the RM10, the facing curve seems almost identical, the tip openings are also nearly the same, but when viewed from the beak, it looks like the RM10 opens into the chamber more abruptly. There are definitely differences in sound and playability, and both play much differently from my old HS**, which, in turn, is hardly distinguishable visually from either one!

 

[stevesklar]

Shotgun,

I've been cataloging mpcs while I buy/sell and reface them I try and take pics of the throats.

Unfortunately pics are hard to take of the throat. But they certainly can vary, and everything else can vary too comparing Chedeville, to Selmers, Vandorens, et all

I don't have a ton of pics up yet .. but slowly and surely
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/CLgallerympc.HTM

 

[Ken]

...PS, One thing that's curious to me is the window length on a Morgan tenor mouthpiece perfectly matches the vamp length of a Legere reed. Thus, I cannot understand why the window length is so much shorter (in relation to reed vamp length) on Morgan clarinet pieces.

Thanks, Roger

Assuming the Morgans were designed for reeds with shorter vamp length, are there any reeds on the market that have shorter vamp lengths? If not I may give the V12 or Gonzales reeds a go on my RM10.

 

[retread]

I'm fond of Gonzales FOF reeds on my RM15.

 

[Roger Aldridge]

Ken,

See how Vandoren Black Master reeds work on your RM10. As I mentioned previously, Ralph Morgan held Black Master in high regard. It's been about 6 years since I last used Black Master; thus, I don't remember if the vamp length is shorter or not. I also agree with Retread about Gonzales FOF -- excellent reeds. Also, as I mentioned before, I found cane reeds to be much more forgiving on Morgan clarinet mouthpieces than Legere. If you're getting good results with a particular cane reed on a Morgan piece there's no need to worry about it.

Steve,

Any results from looking at your vintage reeds? Are their profiles different from contemporary reeds?

Roger

 

[stevesklar]

Steve,

Any results from looking at your vintage reeds? Are their profiles different from contemporary reeds?

Roger

haven't had a chance yet. been trying to pack up a horn to ship out and i was filling in on a college band tonight - tenor. off to bed, then to work in the morning - but have to get 3 more kids in bed before i call it a night.