[tomsch]

Does anyone know how far a tech can expand a neck tenon? I have a Barone tenor neck that plays very well on my Couf. I gave it a try by wrapping it with plumbers tape. I'll talk to my tech next week but I do wonder if the metal can stretch enough to go from a "yamaha sized" to fit the Couf.

 

[Enviroguy]

Brass tenor necks can stretch pretty far. My tech was able to fit a Yani neck to my Buescher 400. Originally, you could almost fit the Yani tenon inside the Buescher tenon. That was a long way to go. And it looks good. See pic below:

 

[tomsch]

Thanks for the info! Looks like it will not be as bad as your Yani to Crat neck fit. The Barone neck really gives my Couf a different sound. A little brighter and more free-blowing which I did not think possible. Palm keys are more in tune with only a small trade-off in the warmth of the lowest register.

 

[EZ]

Be careful with expanding neck tenons that are thin. They become thinner.

Seems kind of silly to mention this as it's obvious when you read it - but some neck tenons are very thin to begin with. The Barone necks I have dealt with (which is four, I think) were significantly thinner than Yani, Selmer, JK tenons.

Hopefully your tech will take a very gradual and careful approach.

By the way - can you measure the inlet bore (at the cork end) of both necks and report back?

 

[jbtsax]

Tenons can be expanded several thousandths of an inch when necessary. You need to remember that not only the O.D. of the tenon is expanded, but the I.D. as well. The neck is a sensitive area of the saxophone and changing its bore dimensions by a few thousandths of an inch can change the intonation and response of some of the notes. Not all makes of saxes have exactly the same bore size and taper either so a neck that is made for the dimensions of one horn may not work on another.

John

 

[hornimprovement]

neck fitting

The Barone necks that I have seen are designed for Selmer/Yamaha with a tenon size of approximately 1.08". The Couf/Keilwerth tenons are 1.10" as I recall. I would not recommend expanding that far. In addition to the previously mentioned thinning of the metal, the bore at the tenon will be both enlarged and distorted. If you really love this neck, I would have a tenon custom made for it. I charge $100 for this service. You may be able to purchase a tenon from Keilwerth for less, but it may take a while... If all this is cost prohibitive you can get metallic tape from art supply stores that you can wrap around the tenon until the desired fit is achieved. You may have to change the tape occaisionally, but it's fairly inexpensive.

 

[shmuelyosef]

$100 is a good price for a new tenon...do you cut these from solid rod or have you found thick wall tubing that is the right starting size? I find that it takes most of a half day to make a tenon from solid rod...much of the time just opening the bore.

 

[1saxman]

Enviroguy; that neck does look good on the Buescher. As you know, and most likely which is why you chose that neck, the original was under-slung too. The Buescher neck did have the extra wire braces under it, but the Yana neck preserves the right appearance of the horn. That looks like a pre-'Selmer Buescher' if I'm seeing it right, which was a very fine tenor. Even if it is a post-Selmer acquisition horn, they can be great too. I played one for a few years back in the '60s. On tenon sizing, I know that new Selmer necks are routinely sized-up for pre-'67 Selmer tenors with no ill effects. The real worry in the mechanical sense is the 'work-hardening' that occurs from working the tenon, which causes it to be more brittle and possibly crack. On the other hand, Selmer and other premium neck tenons are higher-strength bronze and can take more abuse than some other alloys. Ideally, a sized-up tenon should be taken off the neck and properly annealed which would restore its ductility. This of course would take the finish off the tenon and part of the neck, plus I don't know of any repair facilities able to do this. Cryo treatment would not help - it would have to be heat treated.

 

[shmuelyosef]

Brass is pretty forgiving regarding heat-treatment...you could just put it on a pad of the ceramic foam that is used for soldering on any turntable and just spin it with a torch on it until it shows the dullest red and then you will have little danger of splitting. I would do that last little bit of 'stretching' after the anneal. Aluminum and steel alloys are very sensitive to cooling, but brass is less so.

...more info HERE

 

[hornimprovement]

$100 is a good price for a new tenon...do you cut these from solid rod or have you found thick wall tubing that is the right starting size? I find that it takes most of a half day to make a tenon from solid rod...much of the time just opening the bore.

I make them from solid bar stock. I get the I.D. in the ballpark with drills, then
finish to size with a boring bar.

 

[shmuelyosef]

I make them from solid bar stock. I get the I.D. in the ballpark with drills, then
finish to size with a boring bar.

Guess I could invest in some nice bigger drills...I'm spending lots of time with the boring bars making curls...