Sax on the Web Forum banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I use an Akai 4000s EWI with a Roland Sonic Cel Sound modual. I love the combination. I have one problem. Once in a while I will get a sustained or held note, as I am playing. This usually happens when I am gigging before several hundred people. It is frustrating. When this happens I can only stop cut both EWI and sound modual off to reset and start over. Has anyone had this problem, and if so, please, tell me how to correct it.
I appreciate any help, as I love this combination. But, it is frustrating when it happens.

Jimmy
 

·
Mouthpiece Refacer Extraordinaire and Forum Contri
Joined
·
3,450 Posts
Are you using the internal sounds or are you using it to control an external sound module? Sounds like the "MIDI Off" event isn't being captured. Try adjusting the key sensitivity.

(Edit) I just noticed... you are using it with a module. Anyhow... adjust the key sensitivity... How do you like the Roland unit?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
EZ,

Thanks. I am looking in the manual on page 18. Is that the Touch Sensor sensivity that you are speaking of ? Sorry to be so ignorant. I do thank you for your help, as the Akai tech seems to know little about helping a performing musician like ourselves. I just wanted to put this problem out there in hopes that I could get some help, as I use the thing on my gig twice per week and I just have to get it fixed. I love the thing except for this problem.

I do love the Sonic Cel. Man, it allows me to sound like a B3 even with Leslie effect . It was worth the money just for that one patch.

Thanks for any help you can give me on this.

Best Regards,

Jimmy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
610 Posts
I've had problems like that in the past, and finding a fix may not be very easy. It may not be an EWI specific problem. You don't need a midi interface with your setup, but you might try one that has a one in and two out, and see if it still occurs. You need to send an all notes off reset signal to the module. Some midi interfaces have that "panic" option. I think I may have had one years ago. Most software has a panic button. You will be able to find a solution, but you will have to jump through some hoops first.
 

·
Mouthpiece Refacer Extraordinaire and Forum Contri
Joined
·
3,450 Posts
I don't have the manual handy, but I recollect something about the key sensitivity and sticking notes. There is also breath sensitivity. Dials under the plastic cover... Setting up the instrument requires some calibration - not too difficult but very necessary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
When you get stuck notes, without touching any of the sensors, press the setup and transpose buttons simultaneously on the back of the EWI, this sends a CC# 123 all notes off message.

Pressing those two plus the level and fx buttons at the bottom simultaneously will send an entire MIDI system reset message, including note off and CC reset.

Hope this helps

John


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
John,

Thanks. I will try it. Have you ever been playing hot and heavy in the middle of a solo and this happen with you ? I have been kind of putting up with it, as it does not happen all the time. But, I love the sounds that I get with the Sonic Cel so much and I know that the 4000s is the best.

Best Regards,

Jimmy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Hello Jimmy,

here's a video that I found that explain how to adjust the sensitivity of the EWI4000s.

I haven't bought one yet but am strongly considering. The author of the video has a series of 8 informative videos on the EWI4000s that you might find interesting.

Good Luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
John,

Thanks. I will try it. Have you ever been playing hot and heavy in the middle of a solo and this happen with you ? I have been kind of putting up with it, as it does not happen all the time. But, I love the sounds that I get with the Sonic Cel so much and I know that the 4000s is the best.

Best Regards,

Jimmy
Hey Jimmy,

Occasionally this does happen. It could be any number of possible reasons from improper setup of the EWI (which I doubt, since it seems to work fairly well most of the time) to some kind o malfunction which is also not likely.

I doubt it's an improper adjustment of the touch sensitivity settings or the breath sensor because in that case you would most likely get a continual and constant tone from the EWI, not just at certain moments.

It mostly sounds like a MIDI data overload on the MIDI path to your Sonic Cell. I was having really nasty stuck note issues in my setup due to MIDI overflow and what finally fixed it was a different MIDI interface. I currently use an M-AUDIO 4x4 which seems to handle all the data I can throw at it. That being said, I still occasionally will get hung notes when I change patches too quickly or hit some CC message or pedal in the middle of something.

Each note's MIDI message consists of two parts, a note on and a note off. The hung note occurs when, for whatever reason, the sound source (your Sonic Cell) doesn't receive the note off for a given pitch or pitches. Usually that happens when your MIDI pathway gets too jammed with data overflow so the note offs get dropped from the data chain and never mak it to the destination.

I'd seriously try going down to your local music shop and buying a couple of different MIDI interfaces and seeing which one gives you the better throughput. Then just return the others. It WILL make a huge difference.

I have the M-Audio, the MIDI in/out on my MOTU Ultralight, an Emagic AMT 8, and an X-MIDI 1in/1out USB. Each one plays well with a different set of hardware and software. It's maddening! I love the X-MIDI because it's such a self contained compact thing. But Reason HATES that interface! I get nothing but stuck notes and MIDI overflow in Reason, but as soon as I switch to the M-Audio, it all works fine. Go figure...

Hope this helps. You can also PM me for more help. Check out my EWI site: ewilogic.com. It's all about using the EWI with Logic, but there's other good info there too.

Peace
John

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
By the way I just check your site http://www.ewilogic.com/

Thank you very much for taking the time to share the knowledge :) I had heard of the need to adapt the midi event streams for driving external synth with an EWI but didn't know what was required. I would have tougth it was CC #2 that needed to be transformed so was quite surprised to see it was CC#7 Volume!
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
5,092 Posts
Holy ****, John! I never knew Brecker used Logic like that, and you've (and he, apparently) approached Logic in a totally different way from how I was doing it, one synth/instrument at a time. WTH, man, where was this info 4 years ago when I started digging in?! You are the MAN! Here's a tutorial I made on creating EWI patches in Native Instruments Massive: http://www.danperezsax.com/MassiveEWItutorial.pdf Go ahead and link or copy that on your site if you want, and check out http://www.ewireasonsounds.com for some tutorials and things you can link to get some similar effects to what you describe on your page out of Reason.

EDIT: We GOTTA hook up on this stuff, man. I've got a lot to learn. Gonna give you a call later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
Holy ****, John! I never knew Brecker used Logic like that, and you've (and he, apparently) approached Logic in a totally different way from how I was doing it, one synth/instrument at a time. WTH, man, where was this info 4 years ago when I started digging in?! You are the MAN! Here's a tutorial I made on creating EWI patches in Native Instruments Massive: http://www.danperezsax.com/MassiveEWItutorial.pdf Go ahead and link or copy that on your site if you want, and check out http://www.ewireasonsounds.com for some tutorials and things you can link to get some similar effects to what you describe on your page out of Reason.

EDIT: We GOTTA hook up on this stuff, man. I've got a lot to learn. Gonna give you a call later.
Hehehe.... thanks Dan. I've been working on this stuff for a LONG time! The Logic/Reason/Looping setup in that video is the culmination of 18 months of work and programming in Logic. Funny thing is, I just reprogrammed the entire rig because of an error I made! Pain in the a**!!

Chris Volstadt at ewireasonsounds.com has some amazing stuff. I've become friends with Chris and actually consulted with him in a minor way on his Cyclone refill. He's the MASTER of using the EWI with Reason. He continually blows my mind with the things he's coming up with out of that package!

I've had so much stuff going on I haven't been able to finish the tutorial series that I started for the Logic environment. Hopefully in the next week or so I'll get back to it and continue. I've got about thirty tutorials mapped out and get into some pretty advanced MIDI manipulation. I'm hoping to do a set on integrating Reason into Logic and I'm working on Chris to commit to doing it with me. (hint hint hint Chris!)

I'll be happy to talk to you about what I'm doing with it and I'm definitely gonna check our your Massive tutorial!

Peace,
John

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
By the way I just check your site http://www.ewilogic.com/

Thank you very much for taking the time to share the knowledge :) I had heard of the need to adapt the midi event streams for driving external synth with an EWI but didn't know what was required. I would have tougth it was CC #2 that needed to be transformed so was quite surprised to see it was CC#7 Volume!
You're very welcome!

In actuality it all depends on what you're driving. Some synths only respond to a few MIDI CC controllers while others are fully mappable from any source to any destination.

The EWI transmits Volume (CC#7), breath (CC#2), modulation (CC#1), expression (CC#11), velocity, aftertouch, pitchbend, portamento, and any number of additional possible controllers based on how you've set it up. Add in a MIDI footpedal or two and some presequencing and you're talking about an astronomical amount of data hammering away on that MIDI pathway!

In my personal setup I program my sounds to respond to any combination of different controllers. A very basic, simple sound may only use breath and modulation, but a complex and evolving sound or something that I want to have very deep control over might use ALL of those controllers to manipulate the sound as it's being played. Brecker was the master of that technique. If you listen closely to his sounds, there's a MAJOR amount of expressiveness and depth in his patches and that's all based on the programming which is based on intelligent mapping of the controllers. It can get really deep, really quick but the results can be awe inspiring.

There's a great little app called MIDI Monitor (freeware) that you can download to your computer. Get a copy of that and load it up. Connect your EWI to your computer via MIDI and look at the monitor window while you play. You'll quickly see it's a stupendous amount of data! One thing to do is to eliminate the controllers by filtering them out or turning them off that your synth doesn't respond to (or that you're not using in your programming). By thinning out the data stream you can avoid MIDI backlogs and sluggishness as well as stuck notes. The number one culprit though, in my experience, is the MIDI interface and how well it handles that much data bandwidth.

Hope this all helps...

Peace,
John

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
Also, just to clarify: On my ewilogic.com site tutorials, I deal with Volume (CC#7) in a very specific way. I have built those environment mappers and filters to deal with the fact that any channel strip fader in Logic, when it receives a scaled (0-127) volume CC, it causes the fader to "jump" up and down in direct relation to the amount of CC#7 data being sent.

The only options are to turn that CC off on the EWI (and lose the ability to map that controller to something useful) or remap/filter it in Logic which I choose to do. One way I use it is to remap volume to modulation and map modulation to filter cutoffs so the harder you blow, the more volume CC it sends, the more (remapped to) modulation you get and the filter responds by altering the sound. Just one of hundreds of possibilities!

I just want to be very careful to make it clear that remapping CC#7 is specific to Logic in the way that I use it. That may or may not be the case with your synth(s) or software, and you should explore in depth which controllers your setup responds to and how those controllers effect the sounds you're using.

Sorry to be so long winded on the subject! But it's an important distinction!

Peace,
John


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Thank you for the additional infos :)

I haven't yet bought an EWI4000s but am strongly considering since I cannot play sax at night and I have a Korg Triton mostly unused since I am terrible at the keyboard!

I have Logic Studio as well so I don't need the Midi monitor app but thanks for the recommendation. Do you use your EWI with external synth? If so do you need to have Logic up to play them (for midi signal filtering?).

Sorry for the thread hijack :blush:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
Do you use your EWI with external synth? If so do you need to have Logic up to play them (for midi signal filtering?).
I do occasionally use external hardware but mostly in my studio. Live I try to only use my laptop as it's just too much stuff to haul around.

You don't have to use Logic for midi routing but it's a great tool for creative MIDI manipulation.

I still highly recommend the MIDI Monitor app as it's a great tool for troubleshooting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
MidiOx is a powerful free tool that will serve as a midi monitor, midi router, midi filter, midi remapper, etc. In conjunction with a virtual MIDI port tool like MIDI Yoke (also free, but might not be optimal on 64 bit systems), it packs a wallop. Looking at your MIDI stream is often step 1 in troubleshooting for me.

The MIDI protocol ideally tops out at about 1.5 Khz, and 1Khz is more realistic. If your MIDI port is carrying more than this, trouble may well result. Keeping unnecessary CC traffic off the port is a better approach than turning repsonse to that CC off at the sound generator.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top