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Discussion Starter #1
Gary Smulyan won the downbeat bari award. In the article it was stated he played a 1936 conn 12m to low Bb. He is a Keilwerth artist. He uses a Sx-90R baritone. In fact, his pic in the article showed the Keilwerth. They had a workshop at the local music store when Tower of Power was in town. It was a Yamaha love fest. They pushed Yamaha. When Doc Kupcta was ask what bari he used at home he said he keeps his 62 w/ the TOP trailer but he would use a 62 at home if the rep gave him another one.He would not state what he uses at home. When I spoke to Doc in private he told me my Selmer bari(s-80 series I) was good and that Selmer is the gold standard of the saxophone but he liked Yamaha a little better. Many years ago when I took private jazz lessons from Tim Price he stated how much better Keilweth/Coufs(I played selmers) are than Selmer cause of rolled tone holes. Intersestingly enough he is a Selmer clinician now. No offense against Tim;he is a great guy!!!! It frustrates me w/ these endorsements because people should play what they like not what Joe pro plays!!!!I heard Phil Woods makes about $110,00 a year endosing custom zs. The list goes on and on.
 

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sycc said:
It frustrates me w/ these endorsements because people should play what they like not what Joe pro plays!!!!
Not to start the usual SOTW war, but how does some guy taking some cash to promote a particular horn keep other people from playing what they like?

BTW, I generally suck, but will take money from anyone to promote their product. Really. Anyone. Horns, reeds, foot powder, anything. Seriously, I'm a *****. Someone pay me.
 

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uhhh, so you want people to turn down free horns and free publicity? (money is very rarely involved in saxophone/reeed endorsements except the ultra elite - Phil, Dave, Josh, Joe, and not many others...) Good luck with that. ;)

Also, I think this feeds the argument that once it reaches a certain level of playability, equipment isn't all that important. Do you really think an artist would use a product that wrecks their sound? I seriously doubt that playing on an awful horn that inhibits his playing would be worth $110K to Mr. Woods.

As with anything in life, take an endorsement with a grain of salt.
 

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sycc said:
I heard Phil Woods makes about $110,00 a year endorsing Custom Z's.
Don't believe everything you hear. In the music business many endorsing artists get discounts on gear. Many endorsing artists don't get free gear. It is all-but-unheard-of for an artist to get serious big money for endorsing a product.

Heck, Doc Kupka personally told you he couldn't get a second horn out of Yama.

I hope that Phil is the exception that proves the rule but I bet against.
 

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sycc said:
Gary Smulyan won the downbeat bari award. In the article it was stated he played a 1936 conn 12m to low Bb. He is a Keilwerth artist. He uses a Sx-90R baritone. In fact, his pic in the article showed the Keilwerth. They had a workshop at the local music store when Tower of Power was in town. It was a Yamaha love fest. They pushed Yamaha. When Doc Kupcta was ask what bari he used at home he said he keeps his 62 w/ the TOP trailer but he would use a 62 at home if the rep gave him another one.He would not state what he uses at home. When I spoke to Doc in private he told me my Selmer bari(s-80 series I) was good and that Selmer is the gold standard of the saxophone but he liked Yamaha a little better. Many years ago when I took private jazz lessons from Tim Price he stated how much better Keilweth/Coufs(I played selmers) are than Selmer cause of rolled tone holes. Intersestingly enough he is a Selmer clinician now. No offense against Tim;he is a great guy!!!! It frustrates me w/ these endorsements because people should play what they like not what Joe pro plays!!!!I heard Phil Woods makes about $110,00 a year endosing custom zs. The list goes on and on.

Interesting. I note with extreme interest that you were a student about 20 some years ago and...if your going to quote me PLEASE do not put words in my mouth like that. YOUR WRONG.


After your mis-quote, and odd remarks towards a legend like Phil Woods with some very daunting information, which should, if it's true-or not- be nobodys biz but Yamaha and Phil Woods!!

Ditto Doc. Which, by now I wonder- WHAT HE SAID ....and how_YOU_interepted it. Who cares anyhow? OK.Chill.:D

AND PHIL WOODS! Man, respect that man for the life long honesty he kept in this music. Plus- for saxophonists everywhere. He deserves a limo to every gig and anything he wants! Pay the dues Phil did- then think about this stuff.
LOOK, the time Phil put into this music is something we might NEVER see/hear again. Why not ask the folks that did the TOP clinic to try a Phil Woods clinic? YAMAHA is doing the " right thing" for guys like Phil. Its beautiful. Plus- HE DESRVES IT. Don't let yourself become so irrispettoso towards a legend like Mr Woods.


A YAMAHA clinic in the area we live was a positive event NOT a Yamaha love fest. Come on...be glad they had it. To bad that one was a year or so ago. WE COULD USE MORE POSITIVE SUPPORT IN THIS AREA. From all companys and players of every bag.
DIG IT ...A CLINIC BY THE TOWER OF POWER HORNS. And that's all you got out of it? [email protected]#[email protected]#

IN ANY CASE, no offence:) , but I think your way off base.:)

FWIW- we as a SAX BASED community should be glad some guys like Phil or Lovano or whomever on thru guys ya see endorsing a mouthpiece etc are getting some HELP with their biz. This ain't easy and every lil' bit helps.
THE MORE...the better.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sorry did not mean to offend anyone!!!!I agree a good sax player can play any brand of sax and free saxes/products do help muscians make ends meet. I just hope young muscians go w/ what works for them and not what their "idol" uses. And sorry Tim if I offended you or misquoted you. I just find it intersesting all the equipment changes pros make through out the years. Oh and Tim I will chill(good advice not to worry bout equipment etc it's about the music{the TOP workshop was great!!!!}). I did enjoy my time learning w/ you!!!! Oh and I talked w/ Doc Kupkta after the workshop. he is extremely nice to chat with!!!!!He basically said while he likes Yamahas not to sweat my equipment choices!!!!
 

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I've never put a lot of stock in endorsements as a general rule. I prefer to note what people are playing when I see them.

Who knows if the story about Phil getting 110k from Yamaha is correct or not. I know that he hasn't been seen with his Selmer since he got the Yamaha and if you do a little research you will find his opinion on why the Yamaha works for him. I'll say this though - if anyone deserves a 110k a year from Yamaha or anyone else it is probably Phil.

I can think of two tenor players that I know of who are monster players who used to play Couf's and now play Serie III's. Our own monster player Tim Price and the amazing James Houlik. I doubt either of these guys is going to play a horn just because they may have got a good deal on it (I won't pretend to know if they even got a break on the horn).

The point Tim makes about celebrating the fact that Tower of Power did a clinic in your area is a good one to repeat.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I agree Hurling that endorsements are to be taken lightly. That kinda was the point of my thread!!!!I remember a lesson w/ Tim when I showed him in a Sax journal ad that Bill Evans played a Selmer USA Pro Tenor just like the one I had recently got. Tim told me Bill uses a older Selmer paris (either a VI or balanced action-can't remember). Hope I remembered that right. Anyway I liked the tenor and it really didn't matter who endorsed it. I highly recommend Tim for lessons.He is extremely knowlegeable about jazz. He knows too many people to count in the music indusrtry. He has awesome stories about the jazz muscians he knows.Sadly, Imaturity and nonsupportive parents ended my lessons w/ Tim. At 39 years old I have accepted the fact that while I will always enjoy music;I will never make a living at it!!!!!That is why I have spent lots of time and money on my daughters. They have a shot!!!! And with encouragement are thriving!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I learned a lesson w/ this thread. I should have stated take endoresments lightly and left it at that. I should of never quoted(misquoted actually) Tim or Doc for that matter. Private conversations,in hindsight, should not be shared online even to prove a point.And memorys are fallable. I feel bad! Both Doc and Tim are outstanding people. No more from me on this thread!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Morry said:
Not to start the usual SOTW war, but how does some guy taking some cash to promote a particular horn keep other people from playing what they like?

BTW, I generally suck, but will take money from anyone to promote their product. Really. Anyone. Horns, reeds, foot powder, anything. Seriously, I'm a *****. Someone pay me.
LOLMorry I heard you play on your site. I like your band!!!! I hope I averted a war!!!:D
 

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My college big band director (seen next to me in my avatar) is an endorser/clinician for Getzen trombones. I don't know if he gets his for free but if a student wants one, he can get it for them at the discount/wholesale price. But he really does love Getzen and uses them exclusively. Same thing with another trombone player in San Antonio except he endorses Edwards trombones.

I did go to college with a trumpet player who is now a pro in San Antonio who got a free trumpet from the company he endorses.

I've told this story before but here it goes again. My college big band did a concert with Pete Christlieb as the guest artist. Pete endorses Cannonball saxes. But when he's at home in LA he uses his Mark VI. He doesn't complain about the Cannonball's or anything. He genuinely likes them. He said they're built like tanks and can hold up to the wear and tear of traveling that he doesn't want to subject a 40/50 year old Mark VI to. When one gets too beat up, Cannonball sends him a new one. I don't know if he pays discount or he gets them free and won't assume either.

Almost every guest artist I've ever played with or seen in a clinic type setting has pimped their gear. But it's normally only one sentence and 15 seconds at the most.

I've kind of gone the opposite route. I decide on my horn and then later figure out who's playing on the same thing. I have a Yani alto. My favorite altoist, Vincent Herring, just happens to play a Yani too. I play a Keilwerth SX90R Black Nickel tenor. Ernie Watts, James Moody, and David Liebman do too. I don't think I knew any of that at the time I got those horns.
 

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Hurling Frootmig said:
I've never put a lot of stock in endorsements as a general rule. I prefer to note what people are playing when I see them.

Who knows if the story about Phil getting 110k from Yamaha is correct or not. I know that he hasn't been seen with his Selmer since he got the Yamaha and if you do a little research you will find his opinion on why the Yamaha works for him. I'll say this though - if anyone deserves a 110k a year from Yamaha or anyone else it is probably Phil.

I can think of two tenor players that I know of who are monster players who used to play Couf's and now play Serie III's. Our own monster player Tim Price and the amazing James Houlik. I doubt either of these guys is going to play a horn just because they may have got a good deal on it (I won't pretend to know if they even got a break on the horn).

The point Tim makes about celebrating the fact that Tower of Power did a clinic in your area is a good one to repeat.
Thanks Hurling- I agree 10000000 %.

When I had my Couf- it was THE ONLY TENOR I HAD.
As time/and luck rolled by I was _HONORED_to get endorsements.

It's wierd but...I never ever thought I'd ever get a endorsement with SELMER. It was a dream come true. :) By doing clinics with Guardala...at NAAM shows then getting published etc etc it happened. They approached me !! Some call it...DUES ...or some might say luck.
Call it what ya wanna. .

BUT- LET'S GET DOWN TO BRASS TACKS.
Listen to the music and support it. BEFORE IT AIN'T THERE NO MORE.:!: :!:
Next time you go to a clinic- tape record it and think about what the guys said _other_than the tech stuff about their horns. Write a letter to the people who sponsored the event and TELL THEM to do more. Don't vent some brew-haha here on the net about something like this.

Be glad guys can get some exposure....someday it might not be there.
BTW- If you dig Doc Kupka - why not before you go to a clinic, you get the guy
a STARBUCKS GIFT CARD. One of those cards for 10 bucks or so. Guys on the road_ALWAYS_ are near a Starbucks.
Show Doc some love man!! Let him know all those hours in hotels and time waiting at baggage carousels at airports are worth something. YOU DIG? Let the guy know all these years ain't for nuthing.

OR- ask Bill Churchville if he's there how he THINKS in the pocket when playing in a section. Ask Emilio Castillo how he got the the bands SOUL feel on stuff other than TOP! Like stuff they did with Sheryl Crow etc. That would be interesting.
BE PREPAIRED. It will make them feel great- istead of just asking the rote mouthpiece thing. Show em' some respect n' love. THEY DESERVE IT.

By the way sycc it's no big deal- It's cool.:)
Just don't tell any of these guys on SOTW about the albino Alligator I got in my garage guarding my Grafton straight bass sax or the Mountain Lions I breed in my yard ok ? Be cool. ;) :D

Ok- I'm off my soap box.

SUPPORT THE MUSIC WHILE IT'S THERE.
 

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"The harder I work, the luckier I get".




'Nuff said.

Amen, bro Tim. Righteous.
 
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