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So I am trying to change my embouchure to lip out and not tucked in and the sound is defintely better and fuller but my lip gets tired . Its harder also to get the high notes

Doug
 

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Discussion Starter #6
what I am saying is what is wrong with my old style having my lower lip tucked under I mean it seems like everyone has a different style or theory about embouchure technique
 

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I don't think anything is wrong with either option. But the inside of my lower lip certainly feels better now that I'm not trying to bite through it. It was a long learning curve for me, though. I started using Jerry Bergonzi's "no embouchre embouchure" (youtube). I guess it probably took several months before the muscles didn't tire very early in playing. It took even longer before the whole range of the horn returned to normal. But now it is much more comfortable and at least in my mind, I seem to have more control. However, I think you're right about people having different styles so, do what is right for the dog!
 

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there is nothing wrong with your old embouchure. I play with my lip out because of the bigger sound and the ease it gives me up and down the horn. Try working your overtones a lot with you lip out. This will help get your high notes together. When you play overtones you should have a loose embouchure and get the overtones by changing your airstream from inside your mouth and throat. It is totally normal any time you change your embouchure to get tired more easily. When you start to get tired you can either take a break or experiment by rolling you lip in a little to give your lip a break. I use different degrees of my lip rolled out for different reasons.
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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what I am saying is what is wrong with my old style

You've already answered that by saying it sounds better with your lip out. All you need to now is persevere so that you lip doesn't hurt or get tired and you can get the high notes.

Lots of long notes and general practise will be good, as well as work on airstream.

Practise long notes slurring up octaves, start low and go up in semitones.
 

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Are you exploring this embouchure approach because you're unhappy with some aspect of your sound as it is right now? If so, then yeah, it's worth exploring this approach.

If you're also saying that it's not instantly comfortable compared to what you're used to, well: of course! But just starting on the sax was also not instantly comfortable, I'm assuming. And here, you're trying to change your habitual embouchure -- never an easy thing to do.

You've also noted that you think your sound is improved with this approach. How long have you been checking this out? My experience is the same at GT's: it takes months. But, the change was the best thing I ever did for my playing...

Good luck! If you can stand it, keep at it! (And also, maybe, check in with a teacher using this approach, to make sure everything you're doing is groovy...)
 

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Are you exploring this embouchure approach because you're unhappy with some aspect of your sound as it is right now? If so, then yeah, it's worth exploring this approach.

If you're also saying that it's not instantly comfortable compared to what you're used to, well: of course! But just starting on the sax was also not instantly comfortable, I'm assuming. And here, you're trying to change your habitual embouchure -- never an easy thing to do.

You've also noted that you think your sound is improved with this approach. How long have you been checking this out? My experience is the same at GT's: it takes months. But, the change was the best thing I ever did for my playing...

Good luck! If you can stand it, keep at it! (And also, maybe, check in with a teacher using this approach, to make sure everything you're doing is groovy...)
It took me 2 months of daily practice with extra attention given to long tones and overtones before I felt comfy when I switched. It was well worth it IMHO.
 

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Improved sound with your lip out may not be an intrinsic nature of "lip out". If your upper teeth are in the same spot, you may be benefitting simply from having your lower lip farther down the reed, in effect taking more mouthpiece in your mouth without actually moving your upper teeth position. This would explain why the sweet part of the horn seems improved, but extremes are worse. Get a good teacher who can see and hear you for advice.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks John that sounds good I am a clarinet player and flute player that 2 months ago went over to the sax (Alto)
Doug
 

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Okay, also remember that sax embouchures and clarinet embouchures are different.
Also, it's a very different scenario for a professional/experienced player who became quite proficient with a traditional embouchure to make a decison to play with x,y,z style or technique, versus a novice just learning the horn. Context is everything.
 

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I started playing the sax with a lip over teeth embouchure but changed to lip out style (as if saying the V or F syllables, or sucking your thumb). It takes a lot of time and practace to strengthen you lip but once you get there the difference in your playing is night and day. Practising long notes and harmonics are the way to go, keep everything as relaxed as possible, and take in plenty of mpc so there is more reed to vibrate.
 

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Yes it takes months to adjust to. Your lip is a muscle, muscles get tired.


Yes you will sound better with your lip "out". Persevere. OK?





:glasses7:
 

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"It took me 2 months of daily practice with extra attention given to long tones and overtones before I felt comfy when I switched. It was well worth it IMHO."

It took me at least that long. I am much happier now. I can play much longer, my lip never gets sore, and my high notes do not sound pinched.
 
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