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Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering how I could take elements from two different people such as Eric Dolphy and David Sanborn and implement them at the same time in both kinds of music (for an example). I notice that right now, I have different 'modes.' Also, I notice that when I improvise over the older bebop tunes such as Charlie Parker tunes, I tend to lose my style of blues and non-traditional playing. How do I overcome this.

Also, does anyone know of any books that have any of these sax solos -

1) Windjammer - Freddie Hubbard
2) Hard Work - John Handy
3) Just anything that is a good book to look at.

Thanks. I know my question may be vague, but I don't know how to explain it any better.
 

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well ,one could say there isnt anything left that has never been played....fusions of styles,musics are permutations of what has been done before and the only "new" stuff we can come up with...so keep comin up with this stuff!!!! Dolphy meets sanborn...that's original for sure......im almost scared to hear what it sounds like!!!
 

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"Imitate, assimilate, innovate"
- Clark Terry
 

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steal from the best!!!
 

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I was wondering how I could take elements from two different people such as Eric Dolphy and David Sanborn and implement them at the same time in both kinds of music (for an example). I notice that right now, I have different 'modes.' Also, I notice that when I improvise over the older bebop tunes such as Charlie Parker tunes, I tend to lose my style of blues and non-traditional playing. How do I overcome this.

Also, does anyone know of any books that have any of these sax solos -

1) Windjammer - Freddie Hubbard
2) Hard Work - John Handy
3) Just anything that is a good book to look at.

Thanks. I know my question may be vague, but I don't know how to explain it any better.
Man, I'd like to be helpful, but I can't help but point out that if you need the "books" for those sax solos, you are a long, long ways from improvising over the "older" bebop of Charlie Parker, or implementing the styles of Sanborn or Dolphy or anyone else, or having a real blues style of your own, etc. In a helpful vein, I'd suggest you buckle down and learn the instrument, work on the fundamentals, and learn to crawl before trying to fly. I say this in sincerity, not as a put down.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the comments. I don't NEED the books, but I find them to be helpful. I have the basics and some of the advanced techniques under my belt (overtones, altissimo, some multiphonics, voicings, embouchure, etc), so I feel that I am ready to move on. For improv, I like to practice with and without the books and with and without the cds. I feel that my style is much mroe coherent since I've been practicing without anything. Sometimes, I just play some blues without anything. However, I feel that transcription books, theory books, and analysis books help me out (though I don't look at them that much).

The real problem is that I like elements from both Dolphy and Sanborn, but they're so different, it'll be hard to put them both together with my own style. I like to think that my style now sounds good, but I want to make it even better. I like Sanborn simply because he is awesome, and I like Dolphy because of his innovation and impressionistic style (which is really what I want to integrate into my own style).
 

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I have the basics and some of the advanced techniques under my belt (overtones, altissimo, some multiphonics, voicings, embouchure, etc), ..
Are you absolutely sure about that?! Just asking....but that's quite a statement.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yes. I'll get a bit more precise. I am only speaking for alto because that is my main instrument. I can play altissimo chromatically up to E powerfully, but right now, that's the ceiling for me. I can play all of the overtones in a row. Right now, I'm working on doing something like this with the Bb fingering - high F to mid F, high C to mid D, etc, just the harder stuff. Other than that, I'm good. I just started looking into multiphonics. I can play most of the ones I know, but only two or three are consonant sounding enough that I would actually use them in a performance.
 

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Let me get it straight. You're saying that you already have all the basics down cold. Leaving aside "playing altissimo chormatically up to E powerfully," and the multiphonics, in the normal range of the instrument your tone quality, articulation, time/rhythm sense, facility with all major & minor scales, chord arpeggios, breath control, embouchure, dynamics, control of vibrato, note release, subtone, and musical phrasing, is all totally under control and stellar. You have that all under your belt. How many years did it take? I'm still working on those things after 40 years of playing, so I'm just wondering how you did it...

Again I'm not trying to pin you down (well maybe a little bit), but I'd warn you not to fall into a major trap: Thinking you know more than you do, with the result you jump off a cliff before putting on your wings, so to speak.
 

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JTYLER,
Submit some recordings to Tune of the Month!
 

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Yes. I'll get a bit more precise. I am only speaking for alto because that is my main instrument. I can play altissimo chromatically up to E powerfully, but right now, that's the ceiling for me. I can play all of the overtones in a row. Right now, I'm working on doing something like this with the Bb fingering - high F to mid F, high C to mid D, etc, just the harder stuff. Other than that, I'm good. I just started looking into multiphonics. I can play most of the ones I know, but only two or three are consonant sounding enough that I would actually use them in a performance.
Get to love the metronome from 40 on downwards.
 

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JTYLER,
Submit some recordings to Tune of the Month!
He posted some you tube clips a couple of months ago (since taken down), which is mainly why I'm questioning his statement about having mastered all the basics, along with some of the more advanced techniques. As I recall in that previous thread, after viewing his video clips I tried to point out the need for learning the fundamentals of the instrument. I didn't get through to him then.

Given that Jtyler is 16, I'm inclinced to cut him some slack. I suspect most of us knew everything at that age. But, otoh, I'm trying to do him a favor by pointing out the need to spend time learning the basics and set up a solid foundation to build on. I still don't think I've gotten though on this point, but it was worth a try.
 

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He posted some you tube clips a couple of months ago (since taken down), which is mainly why I'm questioning his statement about having mastered all the basics, along with some of the more advanced techniques. As I recall in that previous thread, after viewing his video clips I tried to point out the need for learning the fundamentals of the instrument. I didn't get through to him then.

Given that Jtyler is 16, I'm inclinced to cut him some slack. I suspect most of us knew everything at that age. But, otoh, I'm trying to do him a favor by pointing out the need to spend time learning the basics and set up a solid foundation to build on. I still don't think I've gotten though on this point, but it was worth a try.
+1, man.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I feel that I am skilled with the fundamentals of the instrument. I have been practicing a lot and have taken advantage of the extra time I have during the summer and also have taken advantage of private lessons, "jazz camp," and other programs. I'm not saying I'm a Sonny Rollins at this point, but I've improved since then. I also feel that I was not represented well with my youtube videos. I understand what you told me, but I still feel that a lot of the fault was with the recording device I was using (which was the built-in laptop mic). I experimented with it a bit, and I actually found out that if you play at different posititions, the tone changes in some strange ways, so I decided to stop using it and to take down the videos. If I can use a good-quality mic (which I may have access to in the future, I'll post a video of me playing there). Still, I can play all of my overtones in a row up and down, I can hit most of them at will (just pick up the horn and play a D with a Bb fingering), etc. My vibrato sounds pretty good, and my embouchure is good. Once my teacher fixed my embouchure, I became more confident and everything else came a lot easier than it was before. I'm not saying I'm perfect - for example - I have trouble with altissimo on the tenor, partly because I'm not used to playing altissimo on it and I can't imagine the pitches as easily as I can on alto. Also, I'm trying to work more dynamics and more non-standard rhythms into my improv - though I am good with it in written sheet music. I'm also messing with the augmented scale (and other different scales). It has an interesting sound on Now's the Time in the middle of the solo section in my opinion. I can get more into my practice routine if you are interested. I don't mean to sound pretentious, as I am not perfect, and I can admit that you (JL) are most likely much more skilled and experienced than I am.

Back to the point of this article, I am going to get some more challenging Aebersold books and a few transcriptions (if some money comes my way, that is) to study, but I wanted to see if anyone had any unique suggestions.

To SiBO717, are you saying I should practice improv with only the metronome at only 40 bmp? I've never thought of doing it like that, but I'll give it a shot. Should I practice normal standards that slow, or should I just do pure improv?

By the way, I am now 17, so I don't know everything anymore. Now, I only know most things.
 

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The thing I do is for example if i want to practice a mid tempo 4/4 I put the metronome on 30, which will be my 4th beat or 3rd beat. I actually practice everything like that, licks and even longtones.

Time is actually the thing many people have the most trouble with but don't realise it. For instance in one bar of an "ideal" 4/4 swing you actually have 12 subbeats that you should be hearing all the time. It's called sometimes microtime. Most of the time when a band doesn't sound good it's because their microtimes don't interlock.

Once a player has this really under his belt he'll be able to phrase however he wants. IMO one of the masters, where you can hearit very well was Ben Webster. He was so sure of where the beat was that he could actually bend time around it in the most creative fashion and he never sounded off.
But actually all world class players have this down.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I assume the 12 subbeats are eigth note triplets? If so, you have an interesting strategy. Actually, I suppose swing is formed on eigth note triplets (two tied, then one), so I guess it makes sense. I think I'll try your strategy out.
 

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I assume the 12 subbeats are eigth note triplets? If so, you have an interesting strategy. Actually, I suppose swing is formed on eigth note triplets (two tied, then one), so I guess it makes sense. I think I'll try your strategy out.
Yes exactly. And if you go double time you actually change the microtime, so you play 4 over 3 actually.
 
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