[HeavyWeather77]

I've been noticing lots of people on this and other forums-- myself included-- asking many questions about incorporating effects pedals into a saxophone/wind instrument sound. This is something that's always fascinated me, and I've used a pedal rig, off and on, for the past few years, but I'm constantly wanting to improve it. So I thought I'd start a thread where I offer information on what works for me with the hope that others will chime in with what works for them, thereby improving our collective understanding of this tricky practice. In this first go, I'm hoping to focus on envelope filters and wah pedals, since this has been a very difficult effect for me to use, but probably the one that I'm most interested in perfecting.

What's worked for me (kinda): In the past I've had some success with an inexpensive Boss AW-2 guitar auto-wah (envelope filter) pedal, but it was very finicky, and it eventually fried. Before it went under, I could dial in a sweet spot that worked pretty well a lot of the time as long as I ran my microphone (Sennheiser e604) through my pedal board and into a guitar or keyboard amplifier. If I ever tried running this rig directly into the snake via a direct box, horrible feedback issues arose, inevitably. The guitar amp gave me enough control (and signal resistance, perhaps?) to prevent the feedback; I would then have the sound guy mic the amp as he would for a guitarist.

What's worked for others I've observed: My all-time favorite saxophone-playing user of the envelope filter is Chris Cheek, specifically when he plays with Rudder. When I saw him he was running his tenor through his pedals and into a guitar amp (either a Fender Deluxe Reverb or a Polytone), and his envelope filter pedal was an old white MXR two-knob. It sounded incredible, but those pedals are hard to find. Does anyone have any experience with the current-production MXR envelope filters?

What hasn't worked: I own a Vox wah-wah pedal that has been a nightmare with my horn. The feedback problems are insane, and it causes the tone to be either insanely thin or boomy beyond reason. It's a good guitar pedal but in my experience an envelope filter is the way to go when using a wind instrument.

I'm very curious what other people's experiences have been in this arena. I'm pretty knowledgeable about guitar gear, so I'd be happy to answer whatever questions I can, too.

 

[warp x]

I have used a Vox wah-wah pedal for years. I love the control you get from a foot wah. Autowah filters are nice, but with a foot wah you can do all kinds of sound-shaping things you can't do with an autowah. I use a pickup, so I don't have any feedback issues. I'm using the Vox on this track: https://soundcloud.com/maartenornstein%2F01-backflip For an autowah, I would recommend a Mutron III or the Moogerfooger.

 

[HeavyWeather77]

I have used a Vox wah-wah pedal for years. I love the control you get from a foot wah. Autowah filters are nice, but with a foot wah you can do all kinds of sound-shaping things you can't do with an autowah. I use a pickup, so I don't have any feedback issues.

I can see how a wah pedal would be much more usable when using a pickup instead of a microphone. The direct control of a wah pedal appeals to me as well, although I've come to love the volume-based nuances of an envelope filter. The Moogerfooger low-pass filter is a really great pedal, and I've heard it used with guitar and, especially, bass, to great effect. I haven't had a chance to try it with my tenor, but I'm sure it's very good. Another good pedal, and one that isn't very expensive, is the old DOD FX-25 (American-made) envelope filter. I haven't tried it with my tenor, but it's a great guitar pedal and I'm curious how it would go. Mutrons are very difficult to find, but I'd love to try that, too.

Your track sounds really nice!

 

[BrianMitchellBrody]

I only started using efx pedals during the last year and am still finding my voice.

Currently using a very simple set-up of a Digitech Vocal 300 vocal effects processor and an acoustic compressor (L.R. Baggs direct box) which seeks the frequency causing feedback and eliminates it.

I use with either a SM 57 or 58 and it for the more progressive modern jazz I create through samples and loops it really can make a one-man act seems like a quartet or larger.

Thanks for this thread as I hope to learn more about efx gear.

B

 

[HeavyWeather77]

I've heard that using a preamp like the LR Baggs can take the place of a full amplifier in terms of getting sound and feedback under control. I'm curious, what model are you using? Is it for acoustic guitar, or does LR Baggs make a model for vocal/wind instruments?

Also, I've heard really good things happen with the Digitech vocal processor. Keith Anderson, who plays with Marcus Miller and lots of other great acts, has used one for reverb, delay, and envelope filter effects, and sounds great. I love the idea of a full-blown pedalboard filled with a string of great analog (and high-quality digital) effects boxes, but a serviceable digital vocal effects processor is a much more pragmatic way to go, and that appeals to me for different reasons.

 

[BrianMitchellBrody]

I've heard that using a preamp like the LR Baggs can take the place of a full amplifier in terms of getting sound and feedback under control. I'm curious, what model are you using? Is it for acoustic guitar, or does LR Baggs make a model for vocal/wind instruments?

Also, I've heard really good things happen with the Digitech vocal processor. Keith Anderson, who plays with Marcus Miller and lots of other great acts, has used one for reverb, delay, and envelope filter effects, and sounds great. I love the idea of a full-blown pedalboard filled with a string of great analog (and high-quality digital) effects boxes, but a serviceable digital vocal effects processor is a much more pragmatic way to go, and that appeals to me for different reasons.

http://www.lrbaggs.com/paradi.htm

 

[HeavyWeather77]

Cool. L.R. Baggs makes great stuff, I'm a huge fan of their pickups and preamps on acoustic guitars. This is definitely a DI worth looking into.

 

[BrianMitchellBrody]

I don't know squat about electronics but when I asked around I bought it. It has been a lifesaver and it seems trifle but
it has transformed my sound now that I don't worry about feedback while using my efx units.

Next is wireless in-ear monitoring.

B

 

[HeavyWeather77]

Wireless in-ear monitors are actually not my favorite... I prefer a good wedge monitor as long as the stage volume is under control. I don't like playing saxophone with anything in my ears, because I hear so much vibration that it's hard for me to play in tune! I know a lot of people really like in-ears, though, and I'm sure they're great if you have a dedicated sound crew.

Tangential trivia, an acquaintance of mine, who's a world-class mixing engineer as well, toured with U2 on the sound crew. His whole gig was to do Adam Clayton's and Larry Mullen's (bass and drums, respectively) in-ear monitor mixes... and he had something like a dedicated 36-channel board. Just for two guys' mixes. Being a rock star would be fun.

 

[clarnibass]

I use a neck pickup and have never had a problem with any pedal, feedback, etc. Some pedals that add to the sound as opposed to change it can affect the tone. If I was starting with effects I would get a replacement neck and install a pickup (and I have several excellent clip-on mics), but this depends on the effects you want to use and the tone you are looking for when playing with effects.

and he had something like a dedicated 36-channel board. Just for two guys' mixes. Being a rock star would be fun.

I guess it depends. If you prefer a quieter life, without tons of loud concerts playing rock music, with thousands of people screaming, then being a rock star could actually make you miserable.

 

[BrianMitchellBrody]

Wireless in-ear monitors are actually not my favorite... I prefer a good wedge monitor as long as the stage volume is under control. I don't like playing saxophone with anything in my ears, because I hear so much vibration that it's hard for me to play in tune! I know a lot of people really like in-ears, though, and I'm sure they're great if you have a dedicated sound crew.

Tangential trivia, an acquaintance of mine, who's a world-class mixing engineer as well, toured with U2 on the sound crew. His whole gig was to do Adam Clayton's and Larry Mullen's (bass and drums, respectively) in-ear monitor mixes... and he had something like a dedicated 36-channel board. Just for two guys' mixes. Being a rock star would be fun.

My most recent experience using In-Ear Monitoring was in a professional classic rock band that played in casinos a couple of years ago. Our equipment was top notch digital and we had six members all using in-ear with a dedicated 16 channel board just for the monitoring, it was fantastic to actually hear everybody and myself so clearly.

In a jazz setting I don't need any sort of monitoring.

B