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Discussion Starter #1
has anyone had a problem with the seal of a reversed Eb trill on a 10M? It's driving me crazy. I've brought it to 3 different repair men. The low E and Eb speak fine but the low D flutters really bad. No problem with low C and beyond. I get the same effect when I intentially open the low Eb trill and play all of the notes.

I don't want to get rid of this horn but I can't play a horn that's "missing a note".

Any thoughts? Are there any better ways of sealing it off besides reversing the spring?
 

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don't seal it off!!
get it repadded and the tonehole levelled (if necessary) it is just like getting any other pad to seal,
many repairmen who don't understand the benefit of the e flat trill key will shove a cork under the key guard, for example, or bend the keyguard over the key to close it permanently.
but it should be quite easy to fix if you find a good tech.
 

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Make sure that is the problem first. Put a cork in it to close it off and see if the ow notes are better. Not hard to adjust this to work properly. It just needs to close exactly at the same time as the E pad.
 

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The low D burble can be from insufficient air support...at least it happens to be when I get lazy on my 10M.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for all the help.

Well the only reason I suspect that Eb to be the problem is because I just got the pads reseated and it didn't help, I'm wondering if it got passed over by my tech. No matter what my dynamic/air pressure is the low D's resistance and response is noticably different then anything else in the lower register on the horn.

Plus again the more I messed with the Eb trill I found I could get the exact same effect but even more amplified when I would vent the key on purpose and play the RH notes.


Thanks for the feedback. I'm just getting extremely frustrated and I don't want to sell this horn it sounds so sweet.
 

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If the D is stuffy but the low C is OK, it is probably due to the C key felt being too large and not letting the C pad open enough. Common problem.
 

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Low D warbles are fairly common on a 10M. This problem can be made more severe by the presence of leaks but it does seem to be a problem with some 10M's. I have solved the problem doing these three things in conjunction:

1. Make sure the stack key heights are as low as they can reasonably be.
2. Open the low C pad height.
3. Put a liner in the bore.

Any fix that involves doing 'a little of this and a little of that' is a tricky fix best left to an experienced tech.



Best of luck!
 

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theoryjunky said:
has anyone had a problem with the seal of a reversed Eb trill on a 10M? It's driving me crazy. I've brought it to 3 different repair men. The low E and Eb speak fine but the low D flutters really bad. No problem with low C and beyond. I get the same effect when I intentially open the low Eb trill and play all of the notes.

I don't want to get rid of this horn but I can't play a horn that's "missing a note".

Any thoughts? Are there any better ways of sealing it off besides reversing the spring?

Okay. First of all, Why did you disable it? It will play better with it enabled. Reverse the Spring, (If there is one), and put a cork on the F# key to enable it to close and seal easier when needed. Mine had a reversed spring, (Conn Wonder), then I undid that. Use a Leak light. That should really help to find out the problem. PM me If all else fails.
 

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theoryjunky said:
I'm just getting extremely frustrated and I don't want to sell this horn it sounds so sweet.
Been there. Done that. With my 10M, that is. In fact, once I had an overpowering urge to just chuck the damn thing. I chased phantom leaks with three different techs, I had parts refitted and remade and I tried dozens of mouthpieces. It's a quirk of the horn; made worse by leaks. Opening low C and B helps and reversing the alternate Eb can eliminate another potential source for leakage. Certain mouthpieces are going to work better; and some might work that you didn't expect to (like an SR Tech Pro 115, which worked well on low D, but wasn't my cup of tea otherwise). You'll have to experiment, and of course, add some support for softly played low notes. Like many other instruments, 10M's have their pros and cons; but most folks only talk about the pros. It shouldn't be frustrating though, and unless you work out a solution and/or compromise, it ain't worth it.
 

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SearjeantSax said:
don't seal it off!!
get it repadded and the tonehole levelled (if necessary) it is just like getting any other pad to seal,
many repairmen who don't understand the benefit of the e flat trill key will shove a cork under the key guard, for example, or bend the keyguard over the key to close it permanently.
but it should be quite easy to fix if you find a good tech.
I have always just reversed the spring. What, pray tell, is the benefit of the Eb trill key that repairmen don't understand?

John
 

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bruce bailey said:
On some horns (mostly sopranos) if the Eb is sprung closed, the F may be flat and/or stuffy.

I agree. It's easy to check that when playing. I find that some instruments can 'handle' having the Eb spring closed and others end up being stuffy on the F. On some instruments players want the Eb spring closed and the tab that closed the E key when the D is pressed removed. This allows for 1/4 tone fingers that are otherwise very difficult to play. Other players want the forked Eb.

It depends on the horn and the player. Personally, I use mine all the time.
 

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If I reverse spring the Eb, I usually put some contact cement under the E pearl lever to stick it to the E cup. Prevents rattles.
 
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