[sax0naut]

Any thoughts about this saxophone?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.de/ulk/itm/323750580618

I'm asking, because right now I am offered a similar one here in Europe.

 

[JimD]

Seems overpriced to me especially as it has lost one of the pearl touches and probably needs setting up. You could import one from the US for a lot less.

 

[1saxman]

One of the earliest silver bell horns. Notice it doesn't have 'Silversonic' on it anywhere - that came later. I think its too high, but if you want a Super 20 that plays, these early ones generally are the better vintage. One thing for sure, it is original. Except for the silver bell, it could be my first tenor - I got a used Super 20 when I was 16 and it was that early series. What a sweet horn, but I traded it in on a new VI just two years later. I don't want a Super 20 any more but for the guys who still like them, this would be a wonderful project horn. I think you probably are going to spend about $1800 on it considering the corrosion and stained/broken pearls (I didn't notice one missing?) and the usual overhaul items such as lost motion, pads, felts, corks, swedging, etc. Or you could take the other path and just play it, assuming its playable now, and keep cleaning it which will over time reduce the dark areas.

 

[Sigmund451]

Seems overpriced?

Definitely overpriced...by about double.

You could buy a great horn from a top notch shop in the US, pay for shipping, pay VAT, and still save money.

 

[SimonJazzSax]

Interesting that everyone thinks it's overpriced. I don't think it's too far over priced.

I've personally sold 4 of these

One of them was a relacquer, full pearls with silver bell. I got $12k. The others were varying degrees of cosmetically good and I got $15k to $18k for them.

I think this one could be original lacquer, more than likely it is from the pics, and due to its condition, I'd value it around $10k - $12k.

You won't find these very often. They are pretty rare and there is a collectors market for them.



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[Instrument Attic]

Any thoughts about this saxophone?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.de/ulk/itm/323750580618

I'm asking, because right now I am offered a similar one here in Europe.

This is a relacquered horn that has been listed and relisted on eBay without selling for at least 2 years now.

 

[Grumps]

I think this one could be original lacquer...

Nah. Look at the lacquer on the pearls; especially side E. Also some of the gold leaf on the bell engraving didn't quite make it through. I'd bet if you got a good look at the engraving on the bell cups, it would be more obvious. Hard to keep some of that engraving intact when relacquering these horns.

 

[Reet McVouty]

Interesting that everyone thinks it's overpriced. I don't think it's too far over priced.

I've personally sold 4 of these

One of them was a relacquer, full pearls with silver bell. I got $12k. The others were varying degrees of cosmetically good and I got $15k to $18k for them.

I think this one could be original lacquer, more than likely it is from the pics, and due to its condition, I'd value it around $10k - $12k.

You won't find these very often. They are pretty rare and there is a collectors market for them.

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Well, good for you. I would assume that most of your buyers were collectors, because most people that play the saxophone for a living could never afford to pay that kind of money for a horn. It's a shame really, because the Super 20 is a beautiful instrument that should be played, not just sit in some trophy case.

 

[Grumps]

… because the Super 20 is a beautiful instrument that should be played, not just sit in some trophy case.

That's why when I got my Silversonic tenor, it was an Eastlake beater and could be had on the cheap. May not look as fine as the one in this thread, but I found the horn for me; and that's all that matters.

It is original lacquer though...

 

[bruce bailey]

On my Zephyr Special with the sterling neck, I just took the lacquer off the sterling and it looks great. I assume with a bit of work, the bell could look like new.

 

[SimonJazzSax]

Nah. Look at the lacquer on the pearls; especially side E. Also some of the gold leaf on the bell engraving didn't quite make it through. I'd bet if you got a good look at the engraving on the bell cups, it would be more obvious. Hard to keep some of that engraving intact when relacquering these horns.

I can't tell if that is lacquer on the pearls. It could be. I've seen pearls discolor like that on these full pearls models before. Definitely could be a relac, but it looks to have been done a long time ago because the patina on it looks older. Unless the lighting isn't right. Too tough to tell. I wish they showed the key cups and other areas in the photos more.

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[SimonJazzSax]

Well, good for you. I would assume that most of your buyers were collectors, because most people that play the saxophone for a living could never afford to pay that kind of money for a horn. It's a shame really, because the Super 20 is a beautiful instrument that should be played, not just sit in some trophy case.

Most were collectors, but collectors still play and love to play often! They don't just let them sit. The collectors I know are all very avid lovers of the horns and play all their horns frequently. Most of them gig infrequently, but play daily. They genuinely love these instruments and love playing them.

Another thought, it's not bad that these cost that much. It's the same with anything incredibly popular and extremely rare, as I'm sure you know. Combine those 2 things and the prices will go up and up. These can play great, but there is nothing special from a playing standpoint. So a player can just get a regular S20 with full pearls or a later model silver sonic!

I guess I don't see the issue with them costing so much if it's in line with market trends.

Should a vintage rare and popular Mustang not cost more than a new one or a more commonly available vintage one? Same type situation.

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[Instrument Attic]

I can't tell if that is lacquer on the pearls. It could be. I've seen pearls discolor like that on these full pearls models before. Definitely could be a relac, but it looks to have been done a long time ago because the patina on it looks older. Unless the lighting isn't right. Too tough to tell. I wish they showed the key cups and other areas in the photos more.

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The photos that used to be posted with this horn a year or two ago were a lot more clear. I think the seller is deliberately making it ambiguous now.
And when a very experienced saxophone seller like this says "(possibly not the original lacquer)" ... well, we can read between the lines.
The real sign though is that this horn has clear lacquer. Correct me if I'm wrong Simon, but I'm pretty sure King was only spraying gold lacquer when this was made and didn't switch to clear until later in the '50s.

I agree though: side pearls + sterling bell Super 20s are quite rare, quite gorgeous, and should indeed command high prices.

 

[sax0naut]

Thank you for your opinions so far.

The originalty of laquer is the main flaw (next to the price) I see in the particular instrument that is offered to me, which seems to be another animal compared to the one of the auction.

I was told that it got a Cleveland factory relaquer, which results in the known clearlaquered appearence of Silversonics from the sixties onwards.
BUT otherwise it nearly looks like new to be honest.

Last overhaul was done using oversized flat resos by PM Woodwind in the US. Don't know the reputation of the shop.

 

[Sigmund451]

Paul at PM woodwids has one of the top reputations to be found. He is also a great guy.

 

[Brujo]

Any thoughts about this saxophone?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.de/ulk/itm/323750580618

I'm asking, because right now I am offered a similar one here in Europe.

I think it’s still there, a year and a half later. That says a lot about the value proposition. As does $300 for shipping/handling/insurance via FedEx ground. Although I’d guess insurance on a $19k horn won’t be cheap.

I want some of whatever he’s smoking.

 

[Dr G]

I think it’s still there, a year and a half later. That says a lot about the value proposition. As does $300 for shipping/handling/insurance via FedEx ground. Although I’d guess insurance on a $19k horn won’t be cheap.

I want some of whatever he’s smoking.

FedEx has a liability limit of $1000 on musical instruments greater than 20 years old.

 

[BarrySachs]

I have watched this same horn on eBay for several years now. The price is very high, otherwise someone would have snatched it up. I have a horn just like it, a series 1-A silver-bell, only my horn had the gold-leaf buffed off years ago by some tosser. Anyway, I happen to really dig the series 1 Super 20.

 

[Jaice Singer DuMars]

Dude's prices make even sax stable seem reasonable 🤣

 

[sax0naut]

I bought the one here in Europe that I mentioned earlier.
Looks so much better than the one offered at eBay, was not cheap but much cheaper than the one in the auction.
Setup is very good but not as perfect as I am used to. Have four Super 20 tenors to compare.