Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For a while I’ve been wanting a high baffle mouthpiece for my 270xxx tenor Aristocrat. After hearing a million glowing reviews of the RPC 115b and Black Widow I was planning on going in that direction but I recently saw a cheap used Dukoff D7 & bought it on an impulse. Sent it to Mojo to be repaired & perfected. Got it back today. Wow now I understand what JL meant when he said an RPC brings out the beast in his horn. I normally use a Link STM and sometimes a HR Robusto. Wow just WOW. The Dukoff turns this gentle horn into a monster -- didn't have that type of dramatic transformation on alto. On alto I got a nice fat tone. I’m in the middle of a mouthpiece GAS/refacing binge and it’s working out so well I think I should suppress the natural instinct to restrain myself
 

·
SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
23,361 Posts
Hey Rogerrr, I'm not surprised at your reaction to using a high(?) baffle mpc on that horn. I haven't played a Dukoff, so can't comment on that particular mpc, and based on your reaction maybe it's just what you want. But, at the risk of GAS, I think you might want to give the Black Widow a try on the Buescher... I'll leave it at that.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2012
Joined
·
7,216 Posts
The Dukoff turns this gentle horn into a monster --
Series I Aristocrat gentle???

The laser-like focus of these tenors can be experienced using large chambered mpcs with little baffle as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hey Rogerrr, I'm not surprised at your reaction to using a high(?) baffle mpc on that horn. I haven't played a Dukoff, so can't comment on that particular mpc, and based on your reaction maybe it's just what you want. But, at the risk of GAS, I think you might want to give the Black Widow a try on the Buescher... I'll leave it at that.
I was originally thinking about a RPC 115B or Black Widow based on all the positive comments I see everywhere....I got the Dukoff kind of on an impulse and because I use Dukoffs on alto and sometimes on soprano....I'm definitely interested in trying other options eventually, but for now the next adventures in mouthpiece GAS are (1) possibly getting my Link worked on -- I can clearly see table isn't flat and it's kinda loose on the cork since Dukoff squished the cork a bit ( sanded Dukoff a little & tweaked the Link with nail polish on the inside bore...seems to work so far ) and (2) getting another soprano mouthpiece that's unlike my current soprano pieces ( Dukoff and Theo Wanne Mantra )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Series I Aristocrat gentle???

The laser-like focus of these tenors can be experienced using large chambered mpcs with little baffle as well.
The way I play it's usually kinda gentle but it's gradually getting a more aggressive tone as I get more familiar with it....but when I first got it (especially with the Robusto) I got a gorgeous lush rich tone that blew my mind...it was a while before I got any edge to my tone
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I should probably point out that I'm basically an alto player who is still getting used to tenor.....started playing in 4th grade 50 years ago...after High School played occasionally until a few years ago when I started taking lessons again
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hey Rogerrr, I'm not surprised at your reaction to using a high(?) baffle mpc on that horn. I haven't played a Dukoff, so can't comment on that particular mpc, and based on your reaction maybe it's just what you want. But, at the risk of GAS, I think you might want to give the Black Widow a try on the Buescher... I'll leave it at that.
How would you compare the Black Widow and the RPC pieces?

One thing I've noticed between my Robusto and the Link & Dukoff is that the HR Robusto feels huge in my mouth...not a big issue, but something to get used to
 

·
SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
23,361 Posts
How would you compare the Black Widow and the RPC pieces?

One thing I've noticed between my Robusto and the Link & Dukoff is that the HR Robusto feels huge in my mouth...not a big issue, but something to get used to
Of course it is very subjective. I still like my 120B RPC a lot, but the Black Widow is more versatile, with a bigger sound and more flexibility. Since you've played a Robusto, I'd describe the BW as a "Robusto on steroids." You can still get that fat, lush sound, but with a lot more horsepower and edge when you push it.

And yeah, if you're used to playing a metal Link or Dukoff, most HR mpcs will seem large, but you'll get used to it in short order. I find the 10MFan HR pieces to be very comfortable; it's simply a matter of adjusting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Interesting and tempting...I think I have enough to work on for now, but maybe in a few months I'll treat myself to one

What tip is your BW? My Dukoff and Robusto are both .110
 

·
SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
23,361 Posts
My BW is a .120 (9) tip. You'd probably be just fine with a .110 if that's the size you prefer. I like a fairly open tip with any significant baffle to add body to the sound, but Mark's mpcs seem to work well in a variety of tip sizes, from what I hear.
 

·
SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
23,361 Posts
Out of curiosity, have you ever tried a Theo Wanne on the Aristocrat?
If that's addressed to me, no I haven't. Unless you count the PhilTone Tribute, which Theo had a hand in. The Tribute is excellent on the Aristocrat, but I think Rogerrr was discussing mpcs with med to high baffles (Dukoff, RPC, etc.). I'd bet all of the Wanne mpcs would work great on that Aristocrat; it's a very mpc-friendly horn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I've only used Theo Wanne on soprano -- the Mantra 8 mouthpiece ( mouthpiece, not the horn )...and I also have a soprano Dukoff ...comparing both last night lead to an interesting discovery: I played the mouthpiece alone to see what pitch naturally comes out. The charts I see online say on soprano/alto/tenor you should get C/A/G when playing mouthpiece only... on soprano I was getting about a B ( haven't tested alto & tenor yet)..not too shocking since I use soft reeds (Jave 2) and a relaxed embouchure....this makes me think I need to explore my embouchure a bit as I explore mouthpieces. When I first started playing Dukoff on Alto I got a nice fat sound instead of the bright edgy tone I was expecting....and on Tenor the Robusto was always very rich and lush but not any of the other sounds I hear people say it's capable of...

So this kinda reinforces the thought that not only do I want to explore new mouthpieces but I also need to work on what I can get out of each mouthpiece by tweaking embouchure...reed...etc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It sure is a good thing that when I noticed the palm keys were a little flat that I didn't post "this mouthpiece messes up my intonation" publicly on a website full of people vastly more experienced than I am BEFORE I noticed the neck wasn't fully inserted into the body -- because that would have been embarassing
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
For a while I’ve been wanting a high baffle mouthpiece for my 270xxx tenor Aristocrat. After hearing a million glowing reviews of the RPC 115b and Black Widow I was planning on going in that direction but I recently saw a cheap used Dukoff D7 & bought it on an impulse. Sent it to Mojo to be repaired & perfected. Got it back today. Wow now I understand what JL meant when he said an RPC brings out the beast in his horn. I normally use a Link STM and sometimes a HR Robusto. Wow just WOW. The Dukoff turns this gentle horn into a monster -- didn't have that type of dramatic transformation on alto. On alto I got a nice fat tone. I’m in the middle of a mouthpiece GAS/refacing binge and it’s working out so well I think I should suppress the natural instinct to restrain myself
Interesting. I just bought a Dukoff D7 to try on my altos. I played it on my Conn 6M transitional tonight, but was not a fan. It made what is normally a deep-voiced, complex horn sound thin, shrill, and screechy. I'll put it on my 135 Aristocrat tomorrow night and see how it goes. The alto Aristocrat I is similar to your description of the tenor, but I might say "precise" or even, to a degree, "delicate".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Definitely interesting. The Dukoff doesn’t give me as rich a tone on tenor as my other mouthpieces but I still like the sound... it’s more lively/aggressive On alto lower notes are nice and fat - the higher notes I have to put more effort into to get a nice tone
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Played it on my Aristocrat 135 alto tonight. Not a fan. The Buescher is more focused than the Conn, in general, and has a sweet, pure sound with a mouthpiece like a C* and a metallic "smooth jazz" sound with a Meyer 5M. I didn't notice as much thinning out of the sound as with the Conn (there was less to thin out to start with), it seemed like it retained or even added some additional harmonics, and you could really hear the "edge" and volume increase, so in that way the sound was better. However, it turned the Buescher into a squeaking monstrosity. The Buescher is mouthpiece tolerant...played it with a C* (great), Meyer 5M (great), D'addario Jazz Select (fair to good), Brilhart 5* (pretty good), and Vandoren A6S+ (sounds like garbage but doesn't squeak). Maybe a mouthpiece-reed mismatch with the D'addario 2H (the other night, played a Vandoren standard 3 and the Conn with no squeaking) or I'm doing something wrong (played my best in years on the C* after I switched out mouthpieces tonight). I'll try it on my Yamaha and see what happens and might mix it up with some additional reeds on the Buescher, but I've pretty much confirmed my "no metal mouthpieces ever" bias that kept me from playing one up until now. I could see someone liking the effect on the Buescher if that was what he was looking for and it didn't squeak so much, though. Definitely a better sound than on the Conn and I would characterize it as lively/aggressive.
 

·
SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
23,361 Posts
Played it on my Aristocrat 135 alto tonight. Not a fan.
Apples and oranges; tenors and altos.

Rogerrr is discussing his Aristocrat Tenor. It's one thing to play a high baffle mpc like the Dukoff on a tenor and another thing to play one on an alto. I'll admit I haven't played a Dukoff on either, but knowing its basic design, I would suspect it to play overly bright (shrill?) on an alto, any alto.

I could be wrong about that, but you really can't expect any given mpc design to work the same on alto and tenor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,442 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I was actually shocked when I first played a Dukoff on my alto— I was expecting a bright raucous sound but instead got a nice juicy fat tone in the lower register that I loved. It took me a while before I could get the kind of brightness I was expecting. I use soft reeds ( #2 Red Java ) and a more relaxed embochure than I used to— perhaps that’s why
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,675 Posts
If that's addressed to me, no I haven't. Unless you count the PhilTone Tribute, which Theo had a hand in. The Tribute is excellent on the Aristocrat, but I think Rogerrr was discussing mpcs with med to high baffles (Dukoff, RPC, etc.). I'd bet all of the Wanne mpcs would work great on that Aristocrat; it's a very mpc-friendly horn.
Sorry, I overlooked your response, thanks!
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top