[crawford]

Ok, so this mic is totally cool and not at all what I expected all at once. It's incredibly detailed and realistic without adding any of it's own color, so it's very much like playing acoustically, only louder. That seems like it would be the obvious goal, but I've grown so used to hearing mics that impart their own sound that it took me a couple gigs to adjust. Essentially I had to stop "playing the mic" and just play the horn. The dynamic range is terrific and the level of nuance I can hear in terms of articulation and tonal variation is astonishing. Also the proximity effect is hardly noticeable, which is great. I was using the Shure Beta98 most recently and every small movement of the mic made a significant impact on the tone- not great if you play energetic live shows. The DPA is much more forgiving. Even response in all registers at all dynamics which is critical since my main band goes from whisper soft to seriously f'n loud. Basically this mic gives me as much dynamic control as I would have on a stand mounted mic, without changing the tone of the horn as I get softer or louder. Pretty killin. One caveat- if you're looking for a mic that's going to alter your sax tone, say by finding one with a punchier mid-range or maybe extra low-end to balance out a bright horn setup, this may not be the mic for you. If you're looking for an accurate reproduction of what you actually sound like though, the DPA is firing on all cylinders. I have used AT pro 35, Shure Beta98, SD systems LDM 94, Audix D2 and D4, and E/V 498 as bell mics over the last 15 years and the DPA is considerably more natural and useful (to me) than all of them. YMMV. BTW, I got mine from a site called Djangobooks which had them cheaper than I could find anywhere else.

 

[SiB0717]

I second that!

 

[Doug Jones Group]

Third that! I've been using my DPA for about 4 months and agree with Crawford. Very accurate reproduction of your sound.

 

[DanPerezSax]

Plus one.

 

[paulb]

Hi,

Came across this forum looking for sax mic advice, hence my first post. I seem to come to this site pretty often in my regular searches for all things sax related. Guess it's not surprising really!

Anyway, I too have just bought a 4099 a couple of days ago. I haven't yet played live with it, but my testing a rehearsal room with a full PA does show up just how transparent and feedback-proof the sound is. I have a big "but" though (no jokes please - the key noise that gets picked up (mechanically through the mic mount and gooseneck, I mean, not via the mic by air vibrations) seems massive and out of all proportion. I know there's an LPF in the XLR adaptor already, but even if I add a load more bass roll-off on the desk, it still doesn't tame it enough for me (at least, not without removing all the body from the sound)

Maybe I am expecting too much, or am being too critical due to the highly revealing listening situation of a non-live environment, but I'd be interested to know how you guys find this aspect of the mic.

At the moment, I'm torn between sending it back or trying to do something with the supplied mount to try and reduce the mechanical coupling (no idea what yet, mind!)

Regards,

- Paul

 

[DanPerezSax]

I haven't had that problem... Don't know why that would be. Is the mic mounted on a flexible rubber attachment on top of the gooseneck? Maybe if that rubber thing had hardened I could see that problem occurring. All I can say is that I haven't had that problem, but my two horns are fairly quiet non-"clunky" horns and that may also have something to do with it.

 

[Woody Reed]

The 4099 is the quietest clip-on mic with regard to key noise ( i assume you re meaning a thumping type sound when you close the keys hard?) I've ever had. (sennheiser is the worse in that regard!!!!!!!). It's non existent on my horns and I use no low end roll off. I'd check to be sure it's mounted properly first. It is kind of a unique clap system. If it is, you may have a defective unit.

 

[Wagspdx]

I'm looking for a wireless mic. What does this mic come with? Do you also have to buy a receiving unit? Belt clip?

I'm also wondering about the key noise. It's pretty apparent here:

 

[DanPerezSax]

That's not the kind of key noise that's picked up by a poorly designed clip on. That's just a sensitive mic picking up the sound of the horn, and it's not enough key noise to screw up a recording, IMO. When you have a dumpy clip-on, and what I believe the OP is experiencing, when you press the keys, you get a sound sort of like if you flick the side of the mic to see if it's on. In the case of the Curtis Stigers video, if he felt that the noise from his keys was unacceptable, he could try angling the mic differently, but ultimately the solution is to get the horn worked on to make the keywork quieter, or even just use a different horn. Both of my current horns are fairly quiet, mechanically, but I did have some of these issues creep up when recording my old The Martin Tenor.

As I said, I've never had the rumbly low-end bumps in any recording I've heard through the DPA that would indicate a poor mount.

 

[Woody Reed]

Wow, that recording is embarrassing. I can't believe that came from DPA like that, as it truly does not do the mic justice. It sounds like someone maxed out the levels so much that's it's even distorted at times. When Curtis lays into it, his sound just crumbles. Hard to tell where in the chain the problem is. I can promise you it won't sound like that if you watch the gain structure. It truly sounds like it was made too loud in the mastering of that video. I also prefer the mic a little more into the bell then that.

 

[hakukani]

Definitely a gain chain prob. I like the 'oblique' position. Then again, I wouldn't use a clipon for a recording.

 

[crawford]

Yeah, that Curtis Stiger recording is pretty bad. Really not representative. Regarding key noise, I have noticed more key noise than on a beta98 when playing through a PA in a room by myself. In a gig situation though, it's really not noticeable once the other instruments are playing and even when I do long solo sax things without the band it's a non-issue for me live. I'd try it on a gig before giving up on it. Judged strictly on key noise my Beta98 is better, but the 4099 is much better overall for me.

 

[paulb]

Thanks for all the feedback - much appreciated!

Interesting the comments amount the potential natural clunkiness of my sax due to its action. It's not a high-end model - just a Yamaha YSS-475 (Mk I), so I expect the action isn't going to be the smoothest of smooth.

I do find that the rubber mount is pretty stiff though, and because of the small radius of the bell on the soprano it has to be bent pretty hard to make it fit, which in turn would probably increase the tendency to transmit physical vibrations into the gooseneck as it would limit the effect of the elasticity of the mount.

I'll knock up a recording later on and perhaps it will help the diagnosis!

@Wagspdx The mic comes with 2 XLR adaptors for wired-in use - one for plugging straight into a desk/soundcard etc. the other for clipping to your belt to keep the cable out of the way. You can get alternative DPA adaptors for AKG, Sennheiser etc. wireless packs, all of which has to be purchased separately.

Regards,

- Paul

 

[paulb]

I'll knock up a recording later on and perhaps it will help the diagnosis!

I've finally got round to doing this! You can find it on http://www.paulbeaney.com/content/test-dpa-4099-yamaha-yss475-straight-soprano (with a photo of the clip on the sax) or get the MP3 file directly at http://www.paulbeaney.com/sites/www.paulbeaney.com/files/dpa_yss475_sample.mp3.

I'd be interested to have your comments on the key noise. Although I can't actually play at the same time as doing it, I did find that 99% of the low frequency noise disappeared if I hold the gooseneck reasonably firmly between 2 fingers and thumb, which implies that the extra damping is what is required.

Happy Christmas to all !

- Paul

 

[Woody Reed]

In the pic, you don't have the sleeve down far enough on the goose neck. It should go tight all the way down to he base of the clamp. Also, where is the mic pointed? If it's too far away from the sax, you may be having to turn the gain up too far which would also increase the key noise. Think Signal to noise ratio

 

[paulb]

In the pic, you don't have the sleeve down far enough on the goose neck. It should go tight all the way down to he base of the clamp. Also, where is the mic pointed? If it's too far away from the sax, you may be having to turn the gain up too far which would also increase the key noise. Think Signal to noise ratio

Hi Woody,

Thanks for the observations. I left the sleeve partly off thinking (rightly or wrongly) that it might reduce the mechanical coupling a bit.

I've taken your advice and pushed it fully on, and re-adjusted the mic and done a 2nd test recording, if you (or anyone else) have a minute to listen at some point. I've also put on photos showing the mic adjustment I used for the 2 tests. I *think* the 2nd one has less noise on it, which would prove your SNR point. I've recording just some fingering at the end (i.e. not blowing) which shows just how pronounced the noise is, at least in isolation.

Regards,

- Paul

 

[crawford]

Hey Paul, interesting that gripping the mount firmly reduces the key noise significantly. Just tried that on mine and had the same experience. Makes me think there must be some way to customize the mount to minimize vibration. I might even contact DPA about it and see what they have to say. Let me know if you come up with a good damping solution. Like I said, I'm OK with the noise given the rest of the mic's benefits, but why not shoot for perfection?

 

[GennadiyKorol]

Sorry for bumping an old thread

I currently have 3 mics that I'm trying to decide which to use - Beta 98, AMT LS and DPA 4099.

4099 is very comfortable since it's such a small mic you can take everywhere and it's super easy to put on the horn with its unique clamp system. It also has a relatively small visual footprint (compared to AMT LS) and is almost unnoticeable.

The only problem I am having with it is that I sound "thinner" and "smaller" than I usually do with other mics (Shure SM58, RE20 or Beta and AMT LS).
The sound is clearly more "high quality", it doesn't have the "sand" that Beta 98 has and it has those ringing higher frequencies that AMT LS seems to smooth out.
But in terms of the overall impact I do not get the same "size of sound" that I hear while playing against a wall or through other mics.
This is especially noticeable on lower notes where AMT LS sounds husky and warm and DPA sounds a bit harsh and "thin".

Any tips on how you guys point it towards the bell of the sax to maybe make it pick up more of the "breadth" of the horn?

Thanks beforehand!
Gennadiy

 

[crawford]

Hey there GK- it sounds like you're maybe missing the proximity effect (enhanced bass boost when closer to the sound source) that the other mics have. The DPA is actually designed to eliminate that and that's one of the things I like about it. If you like the rest of the DPA's characteristics though, one option is to use some kind of small mixer or EQ unit to shape the sound before you send it to the house PA. I have a Sansamp para-driver DI that I use on my pedal board when I use the 98 to fix some of the things I don't like about that mic. Another option is the E/V ND468 with a Keen Clamp which will give you all the guts and low end of a nice larger diaphragm dynamic mic. You'll hear more of the mic tone than with the DPA, but it's a good sound and bulletproof. I have used that setup for years and still do whenever I'm somewhere where I'm worried about phantom power or wireless problems. By all means, experiment with the positioning of the DPA, but my experience has been that it keeps pretty flat and even response no matter where you put it. That's actually one of the main reasons I dig it. I jump around a lot when I'm onstage and I feel like the sound stays consistent even if the mic gets jiggled a bit.

 

[GennadiyKorol]

Crawford:

Thanks for the detailed reply and explanation!
I can see what you mean, it does in fact sound more "realistic", I was just wondering how I could get more of the breadth of sound I get while playing against a wall. Maybe EQ could help indeed.
I will play around with orienting it more towards the bell, right now I was pointing it at the "middle" of the horn, so it gets more of the upper range as well.

I will also look in the gear you have mentioned, thanks for that.

Thanks again,
Gennadiy