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Vintage Or Modern???

  • Take One is the Vintage Martin Alto

    Votes: 17 68.0%
  • Take Two is the Vintage Martin Alto

    Votes: 5 20.0%
  • I can't hear much difference, and we should all get out more.

    Votes: 3 12.0%
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Thanks to the recent test by Fballatore, here is a similar idea:

I have been considering trading my vintage Martin alto (1957 "The Martin") for a tenor. This because I also have a Yamaha YAS-62 which I love playing just as much, if not more. Everyone thinks I am mad and I should keep the Martin, but I cannot hear much difference when playing......maybe you can..

So to conduct a fair test, I chose the best sounding mpc I have for the Martin, a SR Technologies HR Legend .85. I also used the same mpc and reed (rico royal 2.5) for the Yamaha.

I used a rovner lig, a rode NT2a mic, and the same settings on the recorder, and I stood in the same place! I didn't even take a break, just swapped the mpc and tuned really quickly!

Can you tell which is which?? I chose a style of tune that a like, no screaming high notes here I am afraid, because that is not really what I play.

Here are the samples, called "Vintage or Modern?" takes 1 and 2

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=646818

This little poll will end on Monday evening!

BTW, It is not rigged, they are both different horns as described!!

The Yamaha is a year old silver plate model with the G1 neck and the Martin is the usual lacquer, not that it makes any difference :)

NOTE, I have added 4 more versions, each pair with a different mpc, a selmer c* and a jodyjazz HR5. Just for fun!

Same sax is used for the same take #, so the same sax is used for Take 1 throughout, and a different sax for Take 2 throughout (or it would get really confusing) let me know which mpc you prefer though!
 

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Number one seems like the Yamaha

Number two seems like the Martin

I could tell a definite difference between the two horns, but still am not 100% sure about the choice that I made...

of course, I am probably wrong, knowing my luck...
 

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I can't honestly say which is which. I probably should, since I own a Martin not unlike the one Matthew has.... but I can't.:(
I can say though which of the two recordings I prefer and that is #1, I have been listening a couple of times and I find it " deeper", I might add that the two sounds are remarkbly alike and that I think ( IMHO) that in other soundclips Matthew performed with a better sound than in these last ones......from a purely commercial viewpoint it would be better to hang on to the Martin anyway......but I am very curious to know the outcome of the test
 

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A definite difference, but subtle. Put that in a live situation or through amplification and I think the audience would find it very difficult to hear any difference at all.

Take two seems to be a little more clinical, which I am guessing makes it the more modern horn.

But any difference could also be down to the state of repair, set-up, how well the mouthpiece suits the horn or how the player feels.

Good luck

Rhys
 

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I agree the recordings are close, but on take #1 I believe I can hear the deeper, richer low end that suggests the Martin to me.

Take #2, I agree, sounds more like a modern horn (Yamaha).

;) ;)
 

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saxophrenic said:
I agree the recordings are close, but on take #1 I believe I can hear the deeper, richer low end that suggests the Martin to me.

Take #2, I agree, sounds more like a modern horn (Yamaha).

;) ;)

Ditto. Exactly what I thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
OK, Ive been busy!! Just read what Milandro said, and he is right, it is not my usual mpc, so it is all a bit brighter than usual

So, I have done 4 more takes, each take # is still the same horn, ie take 1 is still horn 1, just with a different mouthpiece, so the voting stays the same!

I have used a selmer rubber C* (very warm sounding) and a JodyJazz HR5

Hope this helps, if you could tell me which mpc/horn sounds best to you, it would be appreciated!! :)
 

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i think the better intonation and evenness of the response in the sample of # 2 suggests the modern horn. both sound great. i like the JJ mouthpiece sound the best.the SR is a close second. I prefer the modern sound. the selmer mouthpiece has the more vintage sound on both horns. i say keep the one that gets you where you want to be the easiest.I love my yamaha's.
 

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The way you phrase, and if your choice of song is indicative of your taste in jazz, throw mpc #1 in the river. Keep the JJ.

Regarding horns, I prefer #1; seems to have a little more body.
 

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I've just listened to the last four takes, and at the risk of being 0 for 2, I think that the first take is the 62, and the second take is the Martin. Although I've never heard a Martin, I'm comparing the sound of my Conn and Buescher altos to what the Martin would sound like. I did own a 62II, so I'm more familiar with that sound. I agree with those that said that they do sound very similar though...
 

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Ok, it was even more difficult to pick out a favorite. I am still not alble to tell which is which but I prefer Number 1 (again) and my vote goes to the Selmer C mouthpiece version......I hope this helps, but is has confused me and confirms the fact that most of the sound has to do with the player otherwise you cannot explain why two very different horns with 3 so very different mouthpieces sound so alike!
 

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i like take 1 and take 2 with the jody they sound like you play more into it. but my couriosity would like to know what i picked
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Milandro, I have surprised a few people in the past with my use of the selmer c*for jazz, It is a nice easy blow, and sounds deep and full. I was initially impressed with the SR Technologies one, but it sounds much better when playing it than it does recorded. I have described it's sound as "widescreen" but on reflection, its probably just bright :)

And yes, Milandro, I think you are right, it is down to the player, and maybe a different player would have a stronger reaction to different horns. This test is accurate though, good quality mic, no eq tweaking, just a sprinkle of reverb (same for all), direct to digital recording. It is perhaps just telling us the inevitable truth...........
 

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Discussion Starter #14
gary said:
The way you phrase, and if your choice of song is indicative of your taste in jazz, throw mpc #1 in the river. Keep the JJ.

Regarding horns, I prefer #1; seems to have a little more body.
LOL, if you mean the SR Technologies, I would have to find a wide river, it has got some girth to it :)
 

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I'm quite sure that the first is the martin. It just has this extra thing in the sound that cannot be mistaken for any other brand. Needless to say both horns DO sound quite similar and the average listener wouldn't think to themselves, "Hm..this horn has an extra..darkness and depth to it. Must be a martin!"
 

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crazydaisydoo said:
LOL, if you mean the SR Technologies, I would have to find a wide river, it has got some girth to it :)
Yep, but you know, (personal taste of course) it goes to show that throwing money at equipment sometimes doesn't help. IMO you sound better on the JJ that the SR, which is consideraly more expensive.
 

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I personally find that the Martin has swift and light mechanics. That doesn't mean that there aren't things which have been improved by other brands or newer models (well, " The Martin" is pretty much the top of what Martin ever reached).
I am having a few problems with the octave mechanism of my Martin, while modern Selmer and clones have the best octave mechanism which has ever been installed on a horn.
With a little more funds and the will to have things changed, one could have the design of an horn altered by a professional but you really need to want to keep a customized horn forever.
 

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if it is my, ears have some explaining to do to my brains.....:D
 
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