[snazandmatt]

Hello

I'm interested in buying a Selmer Series iii tenor in the matte finish (n.b. this is different to an unlacquered finish).

If you own one, I'm interested to hear from you about how the lacquer ages. How does it hold up over time? Does it tarnish more or less than a normal gold lacquered sax?

Thanks

 

[snazandmatt]

Photo now attached of the finish 🙂

 

[motteatoj]

I was looking at one but then read some other threads on here about finish issues and glad I didn’t.
Search the forum and you will find.

 

[snazandmatt]

I've looked and cant find any posts that speak of finish issues in the Matte finish. It is a different finish to the unlacquered Ref 36 and 54 horns.

 

[zorroperro]

There is a subforum about body and finishes around. Not necessarily Selmer, but maybe some info might be around.

 

[milandro]

Hello

I'm interested in buying a Selmer Series iii tenor in the matte finish (n.b. this is different to an unlacquered finish).

If you own one, I'm interested to hear from you about how the lacquer ages. How does it hold up over time? Does it tarnish more or less than a normal gold lacquered sax?

Thanks

I've looked and cant find any posts that speak of finish issues in the Matte finish. It is a different finish to the unlacquered Ref 36 and 54 horns.

I've looked and found many posts relevant

this should answer your query

My old series III alto (https://junkdude.com/ProductDetail.aspx?id_product=906) held the finish pretty well but from the factory had bad acid bleed on several spots. The factory finish was much worse than the near impeccable yani T991 I received today.

there is a specific thread about this issue, i run a search for you and found it , that's where the answer comes from

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?91099-Selmer-matt-finish-issues
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...nish-Reference-Horns-How-do-they-actually-age
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?176453-Ref-54-matte-finish-blight

then more on problems

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?81488-reference-54-problem&p=779162#post779162
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?98704-ref-54-bad-lacquer

then you have general threads about matte finish over time

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?200459-Antique-Satin-Finishes-Over-Time
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?181024-Gold-lacquer-vs-brushed-matte-lacquer

enjoy reading these threads, it's all there

 

[rhysonsax]

I've got Matte finish Serie III tenor, alto and soprano. I bought them all used and the finish is holding up well. The alto has gold lacquer keywork which makes for a nice contrast, but I like the look of all of them - much, much nicer than the fake antique finishes that just look ugly brown to me.

Rhys

 

[snazandmatt]

Thanks. In most of those forum posts it seems that people have issues with unlacquered horns rather than the finish I'm looking at, but hard to tell given the confusion around terminology

 

[snazandmatt]

I've got Matte finish Serie III tenor, alto and soprano. I bought them all used and the finish is holding up well. The alto has gold lacquer keywork which makes for a nice contrast, but I like the look of all of them - much, much nicer than the fake antique finishes that just look ugly brown to me.

Rhys

Thanks Rhys. Exactly the info I was looking for.

 

[mpjbiker]

I've got a series 2 alto in satin gold with ,polished keywork. It has a bit of lacquer bleed , but nothing much, and certainly hasn't got any worse. It's a pretty horn.

 

[snazandmatt]

I've got a series 2 alto in satin gold with ,polished keywork. It has a bit of lacquer bleed , but nothing much, and certainly hasn't got any worse. It's a pretty horn.

Nice. Where has the lacquer bled?
Any photos?

 

[-j.]

I have a Serie III tenor, exactly like the one pictured above (i.e. with the gold lacquered keys); it's 5 years old, has been played HARD, and the lacquer has held up well. Other than the usual signs of use on touch points, the lacquer on the neck near the tenon has become "cloudy" -- but no bleeding anywhere.

I also own a Reference 54 in the faux antique lacquer that I got two decades ago, which, in my memory, aged much quicker: very early on I noticed the first signs of wear on the left side of the bell (the side that rests against my pants leg), even before the pinky keys. No lacquer bleed on the Ref. either.

Perhaps I should add that I'm not especially picky about looks. I do clean all of my horns conscientiously on the inside with a pull-through swab *and* one of those fuzzy things, but I'm too lazy to wipe down the outside. Both horns had issues stemming from Selmer's notorious QC -- or the lack thereof -- and played to their full potential only after a complete overhaul, but lacquer wasn't among them.

-j.

 

[Grumps]

... much, much nicer than the fake antique finishes that just look ugly brown to me.

Yeah, I think the real concern with the matte finish was the sort that also had the faux antique shading. Fake antique never ages well.

 

[turf3]

I see no reason why the lacquer on a matte finish wouldn't last as long as the lacquer on a polished finish.

 

[wanderso]

I had a new 2018 Serie II Jubilee alto. I liked the matte finish—didn’t spotlight fingerprints. But the new owner was very unhappy with the black flux bleed under the lacquer at the corners of ribs and collars. Frankly I had not really noticed while I was playing it, but does look like corrosion. The Ref 36 and 54 antique finish is different (and they are NOT unlacquered). My R54 alto is wearing off on the thumb test after a few months.

 

[snazandmatt]

I have a Serie III tenor, exactly like the one pictured above (i.e. with the gold lacquered keys); it's 5 years old, has been played HARD, and the lacquer has held up well. Other than the usual signs of use on touch points, the lacquer on the neck near the tenon has become "cloudy" -- but no bleeding anywhere.

I also own a Reference 54 in the faux antique lacquer that I got two decades ago, which, in my memory, aged much quicker: very early on I noticed the first signs of wear on the left side of the bell (the side that rests against my pants leg), even before the pinky keys. No lacquer bleed on the Ref. either.

Perhaps I should add that I'm not especially picky about looks. I do clean all of my horns conscientiously on the inside with a pull-through swab *and* one of those fuzzy things, but I'm too lazy to wipe down the outside. Both horns had issues stemming from Selmer's notorious QC -- or the lack thereof -- and played to their full potential only after a complete overhaul, but lacquer wasn't among them.

-j.

This is reassuring - thanks

 

[snazandmatt]

I had a new 2018 Serie II Jubilee alto. I liked the matte finish-didn't spotlight fingerprints. But the new owner was very unhappy with the black flux bleed under the lacquer at the corners of ribs and collars. Frankly I had not really noticed while I was playing it, but does look like corrosion. The Ref 36 and 54 antique finish is different (and they are NOT unlacquered). My R54 alto is wearing off on the thumb test after a few months.

Yeah I think I know what you are talking about - I've seen this on other Selmer horns. Any way to prevent it?

 

[wanderso]

Any way to prevent it?

As I recall, a long-time US Selmer dealer told me that while the horns are dipped in a cleaning bath after soldering, then polished, some flux may remain in crevices and emerge as lacquer is applied or it bleeds under the lacquer. So basically it is a manufacturing issue from not completely removing the flux prior to lacquering. Then of course if there are small edges of bare brass without lacquer, tarnish or corrosion may eventually occur and promote more lacquer flaking off.

I'm not sure why flux retention/bleed may be more of a problem with matte finish. I did not see it on several gloss lacquer horns nor on my Ref 54 antique alto.

 

[Dr G]

As I recall, a long-time US Selmer dealer told me that while the horns are dipped in a cleaning bath after soldering, then polished, some flux may remain in crevices and emerge as lacquer is applied or it bleeds under the lacquer. So basically it is a manufacturing issue from not completely removing the flux prior to lacquering. Then of course if there are small edges of bare brass without lacquer, tarnish or corrosion may eventually occur and promote more lacquer flaking off.

I'm not sure why flux retention/bleed may be more of a problem with matte finish. I did not see it on several gloss lacquer horns nor on my Ref 54 antique alto.

Yes, it occurs during manufacture, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Both my Serie III gold lacquer and Ref 36 honey gold lacquer tenors had acid bleed.

 

[datsaxman]

Yes, it occurs during manufacture, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Both my Serie III gold lacquer and Ref 36 honey gold lacquer tenors had acid bleed.

Indeed. My Yanagisawa A880 did the same thing, but it happened very very slowly. Like nothing for 6-8-10 years, then started slowly bleeding out from a few of the larger posts/ribs.

Clearly underneath the intact lacquer in that case.