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Does anybody have an idea about how best to control ambient sax music when playing with wireless sax mic setup to give your sax more volume in PA

379 Views 10 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  Ixthusdan
Have been playing sax over 50 years but not until recently did I notice that my ambient sax volume greatly reduces my actual volume through the system!! But, what I have been considering is the possibility of using bell covers to significantly reduce my ambient volume and slightly increase my mic volume but still keeping my mic volume below 45% so that soundman still has plenty of room to elevate my sax in the system!!

Does anybody have any better ideas about how to do this other than using bell covers?? Would greatly appreciate any input or feedback about this!!

About myself, I am primarily a Solo Artist type, but will be joining my girlfriends Country Pop band soon, so I want to be able to join them without having to worry about having too much natural sax volume to deal with!!
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Not sure I understand…is it the sound man limiting your mic output as he balances the amount added to PA from your clip on?

Covering the bell, if the “cover” is close enough to the opening, will make your horn’s overall intonation go flat…so I would not think that to be a good idea. To prove it to yourself, play a low Bb then “cover the bell” with your left knee to get a low A 😉

There are “Deflectors” you can clip on to the bell…should be an easy search to find those, & they’re inexpensive if I recall. You’ll get an earful of your own sound, like playing into a wall close up, so that’s another thing you’d have to sort out at the gig. But that could be your answer, as long as you can make it work with the mic…this is done all the time in horn bands with singers out front, similar to when a drummer is placed behind plexiglass.

Again, not fully understanding, but if the sound guy is hearing your acoustic sound “cut through” to a significant degree, & is using your mic feed accordingly, that’s not really a bad thing. Maybe you want all sound reaching audience to be purely from the mic?

Legend has it that early in his career in Billy Eckstine’s big band, they used to put Charlie Parker behind the stage curtains as he played so loudly…I’m not sold on that being true, but it’s a good story, & that could be your solution (unless you’re the eye candy at the gig lol).
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Maybe I'm slow but I don't understand what you mean by "ambient sax volume".
I think he means the actual sound from the sax outside of the PA, or the ambient sound. In a small venue, just project the sax more. In a large venue, only the people up front will hear the horn ambiently, and the room hears the PA.
In a large sanctuary, I am placed back on the platform, and must play "normally" to allow the board to place me in the mix. If I play too loud, I can fill the 2000 seat sanctuary. (!)
I think he means the actual sound from the sax outside of the PA, or the ambient sound. In a small venue, just project the sax more. In a large venue, only the people up front will hear the horn ambiently, and the room hears the PA.
In a large sanctuary, I am placed back on the platform, and must play "normally" to allow the board to place me in the mix. If I play too loud, I can fill the 2000 seat sanctuary. (!)
I'm predominantly the same way!! For 7 years I played in a Worship team, behind a plexiglass screen, that deflected somewhat but still the soundman kept my volume down in backup mode unless I was soloing in the songs or a lead portion of the intro to the songs!! Even as a support musician, I still like to hear myself better in the music!! Of course, with it recorded live, just be happy that you were heard and blessed people with your music!!
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Not sure I understand…is it the sound man limiting your mic output as he balances the amount added to PA from your clip on?

Covering the bell, if the “cover” is close enough to the opening, will make your horn’s overall intonation go flat…so I would not think that to be a good idea. To prove it to yourself, play a low Bb then “cover the bell” with your left knee to get a low A 😉

There are “Deflectors” you can clip on to the bell…should be an easy search to find those, & they’re inexpensive if I recall. You’ll get an earful of your own sound, like playing into a wall close up, so that’s another thing you’d have to sort out at the gig. But that could be your answer, as long as you can make it work with the mic…this is done all the time in horn bands with singers out front, similar to when a drummer is placed behind plexiglass.

Again, not fully understanding, but if the sound guy is hearing your acoustic sound “cut through” to a significant degree, & is using your mic feed accordingly, that’s not really a bad thing. Maybe you want all sound reaching audience to be purely from the mic?

Legend has it that early in his career in Billy Eckstine’s big band, they used to put Charlie Parker behind the stage curtains as he played so loudly…I’m not sold on that being true, but it’s a good story, & that could be your solution (unless you’re the eye candy at the gig lol).
Any sax is eye candy, in my opinion.
Why just in Pennsylvania (PA)? 😎
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Kevan, I started gigging in 1962, and bands didn't even have a PA system then, for the most part. They plugged their singing mics into their guitar and bass amps. I didn't have an amp, so I had to play loud. I guess I got really good at it because I still play loud. I have noticed the same phenomenon as you over and over for many years. The sound man always cuts me down at sound check but never brings it back up when crowd gets going. As you know, the 'buzz' in a room full of people is loud already, and when the band starts, the resulting cascade of noise pretty well wipes out the sax. I finally started 'sandbagging' at sound check (standing back from the mic more and playing a little softer) and/or using my big reflector to try to hide some of my sound so later I will be good in the mix.
This mainly happens with smaller venues where the band runs the sound from the stage, and there's nobody out front to control the balance when the band and the room get loud.
Where there is a remote sound board with a live operator, there's really no excuse for us not being heard. I have resisted for many years getting a wireless bell mic but I have noticed that the guys with them have a huge advantage in being able to go out front and play while the band is playing during sound check and make adjustments to tone and volume.
I have never heard anyone else mention a situation like this and i think you are very perceptive to have figured this out. Unfortunately, it is true that loud players will pay this price while quieter players will have no problem being heard out front.
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1saxman's point about sandbagging it at sound check is well taken, but even then, as a sax player in an electric band you have a very limited amount of available dynamic range compared to guitars and basses, and you have to beg someone to help you with it.

Personally I'm thinking the way to go would be with some sort of a preamp/DI box that YOU have control over the volume right there on stage. (Unless, of course, it's one of those no-amps-on-stage-all-monitoring-through-in-ear-monitors-and-full-time-professional-sound-man situations. Which not that many bands have.)
On the worship team in the large sanctuary, I have headphones and mix myself in my ear. The board mix is separate. So what I hear is not in the house. But, it helps me mix myself in the sound and I can hear well for intonation. The sound people have learned how to mix the sax. It was not always like that. And they know that I play back when blending and project a bit for any solo parts. I do not think the sax player alone can "fix" this. I assume this problem is true for any instrument other than guitars.
Why just in Pennsylvania (PA)? 😎
Pennsylvania is funny like that!
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