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Do Any Pros Play on Synthetic Reeds?

30K views 73 replies 56 participants last post by  7notes 
#1 ·
I have been playing Harry Hartmann Toptone carbon fiber reeds on my alto for about 5 years now, and I much prefer them to cane. The problem is, my sax teacher is a legit jazz player, with strong ideas about the "proper" tonal concept for saxophone. He believes that there is a good reason that all the pros use cane reeds, and that until I can tell him the names of some pros that play on synthetic reeds (so he can check out their sound), he wants me to switch back to cane.

I'll give up my synthetic reeds when they pry them out of my cold, dead...well...you know...but, on the other hand, he is a great sax teacher in most respects, and I don't want to have to part company with him over something as trivial (and personal) as my choice of reeds.

If you have had positive results playing carbon fiber reeds, please share your experiences with me; or if you know any pros or recording artists out there that play on synthetic reeds, please pass on his or her name, and help me save a good sax teacher's job!


Thanks All,

Saxkat
 
#2 ·
First off, I'm assuming you're talking classical. If you were talking jazz, well, I really wouldn't understand his gripe. I'm not sure of any pros who play synth reeds, but I gotta say,
A.) Your prof. is probably a little more knowledgable about the way a classical saxophone should sound, and

B.) Unless you're doing something ridiculous, like trying to play classical music on a Lakey or other bright piece, he shouldn't force his will on you.

Personally, I took a roundabout way of getting to my nice dark classical setups (Raschers on sop/ten, and hopefully soon alto once I get some cash), starting with a rubber Link, then a Meyer, even a Lakey at one prof's suggestion, eventually I found my way to the dark side, but even still I use Legere synthetic reeds. It's nice to have a professor who will let you figure things out on your own, even if he disagrees with it, though my Rascher School prof really liked my sound with the Legeres. So I say unless your sound conception is completely out of whack with a good classical sound, stick with it!
 
#3 ·
Jackie McClean supposedly uses Bari reeds on alto but he's out of the 50's jazz era. He has a very hard bop tone and probably not a tone a classical player would aspire to have.

I really don't know of other pros who use plastic reeds but there are links to player setups on the web (mouthpiece heaven comes to mind )that might reveal some other players.
 
#4 ·
saxkat said:
The problem is, my sax teacher is a legit jazz player, with strong ideas about the "proper" tonal concept for saxophone.
What is "a legit jazz player"?
 
#6 ·
There is no reason that your teacher should be telling you to switch. I use Fibracell reeds, and love them far better than any other reeds. I can get a far better sound on the Synth reeds, than the "legit" reeds.

You may want to ask him what his problem is with reeds. If it starts to become a hassle just to have lessons from him because of his gripes on your reed, then tell him how you fell about it....then notify him that he is now minus one student because of his personal problems. You shouldn't have to give him names of pros that play with synth reeds. There's no point to it. Play what works best for you, not what works for someone else.
 
#7 ·
I'm a pro sax player and I use Fibracells; I'm not a "name brand player", however, and it would appear that is what your teacher is asking for. I gig all the time, from country clubs to night clubs to churchs, etc., using Fibracells and I get lots of compliments on my playing. Furthermore, no one knows or cares about what reed I use, so long as I sound good! Ernie Watts and Plaz Johnson both use/used synthetics I believe, and Dave Liebman did for years before switching back to cane. Does your teacher play professionally? It seems a bit odd that he doesn't know anyone who plays synthetics......these days you'd have to hide under a rock not to know someone playing Fibracells, or Legeres or Hartmanns or Hahns or Baris or Plasticcovers.........Also jazz players' set-ups vary greatly; surely your teacher has noticed this......Having said all that, I found the Toptone Carbon Fiber reeds way too bright and buzzy for my tastes. I tried them gigging for a year and moved on.
 
#8 ·
Saxkat,
Sorry, I misread when you said your teacher was a "legit jazz player" (I read it as legit player, meaning classical). I have to say, a jazz sound seems to me much more personal than a classical tone. I mean, classical tones tend to blend with each other, whereas a jazz tone is an entirely personal thing. Everybody wants to sound unique. Some guys will go through hundreds of different mouthpiece/ligature/reed combinations, searching their whole life before finding what they want, so I say, as long as you're getting the sound you want out of your setup, make your teacher understand that that's the sound you desire, and he needs to deal with it.
 
#9 ·
Benny Golson has been known to play Rico Plasticovers. He may have heard of him :)

Present endorsers of Legere include Randy Scott and Laura Dreyer.

Sam Butera, Emilio Castillo, Pete Christlieb, Billy Harper, Plas Johnson, Dave Koz, Doc Kupka, and Tom Scott all use or have used Plasticovers (and are all listed as endorsers).
 
#12 ·
My teacher does play professionally. He's a "first call" player, and has gigged with everyone from Stanley Jordan to Huey Lewis.

He considers Plasticover reeds to be cane reeds, that have a thin coating applied to the surface of the cane to protect it, and he has no problem with them.

As I understand it, his main objection to my playing on synthetic reeds (fibracells, plastic, and carbon fiber) seems to be that he is hearing a difference between synthetic reeds and cane reeds, that doesn't fit into his concept of an ideal saxophone sound that I should be getting.

More specifically:

(1) To his ears, the tone of the carbon fibers lacks focus, and is not centered enough;

(2) He describes the tone as being too thin and buzzy -- too-heavily weighted toward the higher partials, and light in the mid- and low-frequency harmonics which give fullness to the tone.

(3) He contends that current mouthpieces, including the one that I play on (Morgan Excalibur) were specifically designed to be played with cane reeds, and they do not respond in the same manner
with synthetic reeds. Hence, intonation suffers, particularly in the high register.

(4) He uses the fact that he doesn't know of any pros that play synthetics, as corroborating evidence that they are inferior to cane.

Right now, I'm having a hard time sorting out whether these objections are just the opinions of my sax teacher, or whether these are generally accepted truths concerning synthetic reeds. It does seem rather odd that relatively few sax players, be they students, amateurs or pros, seem to play them.

If anyone has any specific information to either refute, or substantiate these negative properties/attributes of synthetic reeds, I would very much appreciate hearing from you!

-- Saxkat
 
#13 ·
Thanks Saxman, and all who have responded to my initial post. Your comments have been very helpful to me, as I have been searching for a tactfull way to tell my teacher that I want to stick with my synthetic reeds, without alienating him.

LIke most pros, my teacher has pretty incredible ears, and if he is hearing undesireable things in my tone that he associates with synthetic reeds, then far be it for me to say that he's wrong. However, not everyone's tonal concept is the same, and many other people (myself included) seem to like my sound the way it is.

Your sound is a very personal thing -- like your voice. Is everyone going to like it? No. Does everyone like David Sanborn's sound? Probably not. Now, I'm not comparing myself to David Sanborn, I'm just trying to illustrate a point -- that no matter how accomplished and successful you are as a saxophone player, your sound won't necessarily be pleasing to everyone. Such is the nature of music, for better or worse.

I think as sax players, we are always striving to improve our sound. Most of the time, our teachers support us in our efforts to do this, and we try to follow their advice. There comes a time, however, when you have to put aside what others tell you to do, no matter how well-intentioned they may be, and listen to your own voice.

Those are some of my thoughts right now...I don't know how this will play with my teacher, but thanks to all for your helpful suggestions.

-- Saxkat
 
#53 ·
Thanks Saxman, and all who have responded to my initial post. Your comments have been very helpful to me, as I have been searching for a tactfull way to tell my teacher that I want to stick with my synthetic reeds, without alienating him.

LIke most pros, my teacher has pretty incredible ears, and if he is hearing undesireable things in my tone that he associates with synthetic reeds, then far be it for me to say that he's wrong. However, not everyone's tonal concept is the same, and many other people (myself included) seem to like my sound the way it is.

Your sound is a very personal thing -- like your voice. Is everyone going to like it? No. Does everyone like David Sanborn's sound? Probably not. Now, I'm not comparing myself to David Sanborn, I'm just trying to illustrate a point -- that no matter how accomplished and successful you are as a saxophone player, your sound won't necessarily be pleasing to everyone. Such is the nature of music, for better or worse.

I think as sax players, we are always striving to improve our sound. Most of the time, our teachers support us in our efforts to do this, and we try to follow their advice. There comes a time, however, when you have to put aside what others tell you to do, no matter how well-intentioned they may be, and listen to your own voice.

Those are some of my thoughts right now...I don't know how this will play with my teacher, but thanks to all for your helpful suggestions.

-- Saxkat
No matter how good the synth reed is it will always lack a little in the frequence department. I have tried every synth reed out and recorded myself. They are usually very consistant, loud and easy to play but cane reeds just have more depth to the tone. I use synth reeds when I double when its dry out so I don't have to worry about my reeds warpping but I wouldn't be caught dead for a studio gig with a synth reed.
 
#14 ·
I play in a classical wind ensemble during the year at one of the local private colleges. This is a small college so they augment their group with outsiders. My director has a very low opinion of synthetic reeds. Specifically, fibracells. She hates them. She also hates metal mouthpieces but that is another story.

My setup these days is either a Morgan 7L with a fibracell or a Woodwind Company 36 that I refaced with a fibracell. I've gotten many complements on my tone from other players and my director was shocked when I told her earlier this year that I had been playing on fibracells for quite a while in the group. I like a dark setup on tenor and the fibracells bring back the buzz that I like.

I grew up playing Rico's and Rico Royals and like a reed with some buzz but I don't have the time to mess with reeds all the time. The fibracells seem much more stable than any of the other synthetic reeds I have tried and seem to respond and feel the most like cane.
 
#15 ·
My main problem with synthetic reeds was in feel and response for me, not in the sound I was achieving. Still, that was enough to diminish my confidence which I believe the audience would perceive. Therefore I switched back to cane. The sounds and nuances that I can achieve are just better to my ears. Also there is more resistance in cane reeds: to me this is a good thing.
 
#16 ·
Ive met Harry Hartman and also Wolf Kodera, who are behind the Harry Hartman Reeds (Wolf designed one of the reed types.).

They are both pro players in Germany. They use these reeds.
Harry Hartman is affiliated with a music university in Germany, but i dont recall which one. Wolf Kodera is one of the most famous sax players in Germany. He has done a great deal of pop/rock sax session work in Germany. He likes the reeds because they are consistent and he doesnt have to always be searching and fussing over reeds, once he gets reeds right they last a long time beause they are synthetic. He also plays or has played in classical and legit type jazz settings, andI assume he also uses these reeds there but i dont know that for a fact.

What you might want to do is contact Harry Hartman (Im sure there is an email address on the box?) and ask him to write you back to give you some info on the wide range of pro musicains that use his reeds.
 
#17 ·
Dr. Norman David here in Philadelphia uses synthetic reeds on soprano sax at least, and he sounds great, I saw him in concert back in the spring and he performed with the UArts big band recently on clarinet and sounded great. He's primarily an avant-garde player but these were both straight-ahead jazz situations. Check out his bio here: http://www.fandm.edu/x6176.xml
 
#19 ·
It's important to make every effort to learn whatever you can from your teacher. Obviously, he/she has earned your respect or you wouldn't continue studying saxophone with this particular person. That being said. At some point YOU have to make decisions about your own sound, equipment, etc. If your teacher can't get pasted the synthetic reed situation - and you still would like to study with him/her than play cane reeds during your lessons. If your teacher accepts your decision (even if he/she doesn't agree) and can move on - then stick to your guns.

I think many of use - particularly those who study saxophone in college - ran into teachers that insisted on a certain this or that. My college teacher insisted that we all order Guardala mouthpieces back in 1988. WHATEVER:? - of course 10 years later - his students had to order something else - whatever was the current trend.

By the way - I'm sure Dizzy's trumpet teacher got tired of telling him not to puff his checks.

Good Luck - If it sounds good to you - stick to it.
 
#20 ·
Nick Brignola played on various synth reeds. He said "you just play them". I think he meant that you decide that you are going to make them work for you and you do not fuss with reeds anymore.

As for:
(1) To his ears, the tone of the carbon fibers lacks focus, and is not centered enough;

--> mouthpieces can be changed to improve focus.

(2) He describes the tone as being too thin and buzzy -- too-heavily weighted toward the higher partials, and light in the mid- and low-frequency harmonics which give fullness to the tone.

--> Dropping down in tip opening so you can use a harder reed will most likely solve this.

But you have to decide how you want to deal with this. It could be that your sound concept includes some spread to the sound and some buzz. It starts with your concept, not your set-up.
 
#24 · (Edited)
your sound

Its all about the groove.
Do you like your synthetics? I just switched from rico royals to fibracells. and find it works really well for the piece i'm playing (bobby dukoff P8)

As far as what your teacher says. He may have his ideas about the tonal centre and inflection a sax should have. but you have to assess whats more important, what they have to offer, or what reed you use. i know that both my teachers tell me to use whatever works and that i feel comfortable playing.

You were asking about pros using synths, gene hardy uses rico plastic covers and he makes a good point, "its always best to learn on bottem grade material, if you can make a crappy horn and a mediocre reed sound excelent then what is the point of moving up? I got used to the rico plastic covers and when rico decided to stop making them i had a heart attack. I went store to store buying them out because i knew that if i couldnt use those specific reeds that i wouldnt have MY sound. This is why pros like myself and Benny Golson pitched to get them back on the market" I'm quoting him from memory so these are roughly his words. But back to the point if gene hardy likes synths then you should too
 
#25 ·
The common opinion is that synthetics are inferior.. even if that isn't always the case. My sax teacher actually encourages using them for quite a few applications, he uses them on every horn. He gets a great sound with them(although I'm sure he would with most anything). I play a Fibracell on soprano, Plasticover on alto, cane on tenor, and I switch between Bari and cane on bari-never had complaints about my tone! At the last concert I played at(lead alto in a big band), I got tons of compliments on my tone on both alto and soprano.

That being said, who knows-maybe he is right in your case. I'd use cane in your lessons and get more opinions from people you trust.
 
#26 ·
I have one of those carbon fiber toptones and it's not just any synthetic. It's extreme--WAAAAY buzzy and makes me work hard if I want to sound mellow. (Tough to blend with a section, too.) If that's your sound and you love the carbon fiber, then you should try to show your teacher that you can accomplish your musical objectives with that reed.
But, if you just like synthetics because they're consistent, last a long time, and don't dry out between sets, try Fibracell (medium bright) or Legere (dark). Even Bari's have their following: Dave Liebman played Bari plastic reeds for many years, though he recently switched back.

Glenn
 
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