Do Any Pros Play on Synthetic Reeds?
21 - 40 of 74 Posts
Joined
·
738 Posts
Dave Liebman used synthetic reeds for years on soprano, but it seems he switched back to cane.
Joined
·
35 Posts
Evan Parker uses a Hahn carbon fibre on his soprano, but I don't know if he's classified as legit or not! He's been a pro sax player for about 40 years and can do more with a soprano than most.:twisted:
Joined
·
7,329 Posts
your sound
Its all about the groove.
Do you like your synthetics? I just switched from rico royals to fibracells. and find it works really well for the piece i'm playing (bobby dukoff P8)
As far as what your teacher says. He may have his ideas about the tonal centre and inflection a sax should have. but you have to assess whats more important, what they have to offer, or what reed you use. i know that both my teachers tell me to use whatever works and that i feel comfortable playing.
You were asking about pros using synths, gene hardy uses rico plastic covers and he makes a good point, "its always best to learn on bottem grade material, if you can make a crappy horn and a mediocre reed sound excelent then what is the point of moving up? I got used to the rico plastic covers and when rico decided to stop making them i had a heart attack. I went store to store buying them out because i knew that if i couldnt use those specific reeds that i wouldnt have MY sound. This is why pros like myself and Benny Golson pitched to get them back on the market" I'm quoting him from memory so these are roughly his words. But back to the point if gene hardy likes synths then you should too
Its all about the groove.
Do you like your synthetics? I just switched from rico royals to fibracells. and find it works really well for the piece i'm playing (bobby dukoff P8)
As far as what your teacher says. He may have his ideas about the tonal centre and inflection a sax should have. but you have to assess whats more important, what they have to offer, or what reed you use. i know that both my teachers tell me to use whatever works and that i feel comfortable playing.
You were asking about pros using synths, gene hardy uses rico plastic covers and he makes a good point, "its always best to learn on bottem grade material, if you can make a crappy horn and a mediocre reed sound excelent then what is the point of moving up? I got used to the rico plastic covers and when rico decided to stop making them i had a heart attack. I went store to store buying them out because i knew that if i couldnt use those specific reeds that i wouldnt have MY sound. This is why pros like myself and Benny Golson pitched to get them back on the market" I'm quoting him from memory so these are roughly his words. But back to the point if gene hardy likes synths then you should too
Joined
·
728 Posts
The common opinion is that synthetics are inferior.. even if that isn't always the case. My sax teacher actually encourages using them for quite a few applications, he uses them on every horn. He gets a great sound with them(although I'm sure he would with most anything). I play a Fibracell on soprano, Plasticover on alto, cane on tenor, and I switch between Bari and cane on bari-never had complaints about my tone! At the last concert I played at(lead alto in a big band), I got tons of compliments on my tone on both alto and soprano.
That being said, who knows-maybe he is right in your case. I'd use cane in your lessons and get more opinions from people you trust.
That being said, who knows-maybe he is right in your case. I'd use cane in your lessons and get more opinions from people you trust.
I have one of those carbon fiber toptones and it's not just any synthetic. It's extreme--WAAAAY buzzy and makes me work hard if I want to sound mellow. (Tough to blend with a section, too.) If that's your sound and you love the carbon fiber, then you should try to show your teacher that you can accomplish your musical objectives with that reed.
But, if you just like synthetics because they're consistent, last a long time, and don't dry out between sets, try Fibracell (medium bright) or Legere (dark). Even Bari's have their following: Dave Liebman played Bari plastic reeds for many years, though he recently switched back.
Glenn
But, if you just like synthetics because they're consistent, last a long time, and don't dry out between sets, try Fibracell (medium bright) or Legere (dark). Even Bari's have their following: Dave Liebman played Bari plastic reeds for many years, though he recently switched back.
Glenn
Joined
·
4,359 Posts
But, can you name any illegit jazz players that play on synthetic reeds? Can you name any illegit jazz players at all, and if so why haven't you notified the immigration authorities? They're taking American jobs, doggone:Rant: it!
Joined
·
2,886 Posts
It strikes me that this is the wrong question to ask. Instead of "do any pros play on synthetic reeds", the question should be, "do synthetic reeds work fro me". Try them and see for yourself. (The only way to know.)
Joined
·
2,655 Posts
I'm extremely picky about the quality of my sound on each of my horns. For many years I was a cane reed fanatic...always looking for the best quality cane and the highest level of performance from my reeds. With that in mind, it should say something when I switched to Legere last year. I came to really love the quality of sound I get with Legere reeds.
If one is looking for a clear, darkish sound with a strong tonal core the regular Legere reed is what you'd want. However, if you want a brighter sound with a touch of buzz then go with the Studio model.
As it typically happens, no one in my bands or audience seems to be able to tell from my sound that I'm not playing on a good quality cane reed. Legere is the only synthetic reed that I'll play. Whenever I tried other synthetic reeds I hated the quality of sound I got and the reed went sailing into the trash can.
If one is looking for a clear, darkish sound with a strong tonal core the regular Legere reed is what you'd want. However, if you want a brighter sound with a touch of buzz then go with the Studio model.
As it typically happens, no one in my bands or audience seems to be able to tell from my sound that I'm not playing on a good quality cane reed. Legere is the only synthetic reed that I'll play. Whenever I tried other synthetic reeds I hated the quality of sound I got and the reed went sailing into the trash can.
Joined
·
907 Posts
I'm pretty sure at this point I've tried all the available synthetic reeds. And as much as I'd like to use them for convenience sake i just can't get them to work for me. The closest I can get is with Fibracells but all of them for some reason tire my chops faster than a cane reed and my rather limited altissimo (A3-Bb4 on a good day) refuses to work with the synth reeds, but I think it's a personal problem, since so many here have good luck with them.
Keilwerth saxes (S/A/T), Selmer clarinets (S/B), Altus Azumi flute
Joined
·
3,671 Posts
I think this is a really great question, and that it makes a good point. It should, however be a bit more specific: Do any well-known pro players regularly use synthetic reeds on their primary instruments? It's important to make this distinction because: 1) most pros have undoubtedly tried synthetics at some point and what we'd really like to know is whether they stuck with them or went back to using cane; and 2) I've known people who, say, mainly play cane reeds on tenor (and would never use synthetics on this horn) but nonetheless play synthetics on alto or soprano for the convenience, since they don't play those horns as regularly.
I think the answer to this question is important precisely because of the inherent advantages of synthetic reeds (e.g., longevity, consistency, convienence, reliability, etc.). If I found a synthetic that responded at all like cane, I'd drop cane reeds in an instant. I've tried a number of times to drop cane. I hate the inconsistency of cane reeds. You get everything together: work like a dog on technique, make sure your horn is working perfectly, do overtone exercises to get yourself solid on your horn and mouthpiece, and then you have to switch reeds and everything changes. I've tried a number of times, for several months at a time, to get used to different synthetics (and I'm about to try again), but haven't found anything that works.
So on the one hand, I say if you found something that works, stick with it. But if a synthetic exists that plays as well as cane, I imagine that just about everyone would switch. So, in light of the advantages of synthetic reeds, why is it so hard to find a big name player that uses them?
I think the answer to this question is important precisely because of the inherent advantages of synthetic reeds (e.g., longevity, consistency, convienence, reliability, etc.). If I found a synthetic that responded at all like cane, I'd drop cane reeds in an instant. I've tried a number of times to drop cane. I hate the inconsistency of cane reeds. You get everything together: work like a dog on technique, make sure your horn is working perfectly, do overtone exercises to get yourself solid on your horn and mouthpiece, and then you have to switch reeds and everything changes. I've tried a number of times, for several months at a time, to get used to different synthetics (and I'm about to try again), but haven't found anything that works.
So on the one hand, I say if you found something that works, stick with it. But if a synthetic exists that plays as well as cane, I imagine that just about everyone would switch. So, in light of the advantages of synthetic reeds, why is it so hard to find a big name player that uses them?
Joined
·
38,793 Posts
Let's take this the other direction...
It could well be that your sound is "offensive" (for lack of a better euhemism) because the mouthpiece accentuates the frequency response of your choice of reed. Take the opportunity to try different reed/mouthpiece combinations (aka setups) to find a more balanced sound. You might even find a combination with a synthetic reed that doesn't alienate your instructor.
I find the Excalibur mouthpieces to be bright even with a darker reed - I have to believe that your synthetic reed only exacerbates the unpleasant character.
It could well be that your sound is "offensive" (for lack of a better euhemism) because the mouthpiece accentuates the frequency response of your choice of reed. Take the opportunity to try different reed/mouthpiece combinations (aka setups) to find a more balanced sound. You might even find a combination with a synthetic reed that doesn't alienate your instructor.
I find the Excalibur mouthpieces to be bright even with a darker reed - I have to believe that your synthetic reed only exacerbates the unpleasant character.
an interesting thread to me, since i'm going through a similar situation myself...
i had played rico plasticovers (on tenor) for a long time and then switched to fibracell relatively early in their lifespan. i decided to go "back" (long story) to music school recently, and i knew full well that i might end up being forced to switch mouthpieces or reeds in school, and while i get to use whatever mouthpiece i want, my teacher made me ditch the fibracell and go to cane.
[side story: at one of the schools i auditioned at, the (legit) teacher there went so far as to say that any teacher who used fibracell didn't know what they were talking about and should be avoided! this teacher and his students can really play marvelously, so i have a lot of respect for him, but that put me off a bit. it wasn't the reason that i ended up elsewhere, but i can't say i didn't think about it...]
aside from going to cane, my teacher also had me start playing stronger reeds and altering my embouchure. the strength increase and embouchure alterations have worked beautifully, but i still have some misgivings about the cane part... now i'm dumping wads of cash on reeds again (i've spent more on reeds in the last 2 months than i would have previously spent in a year!!!) and have to deal with all the various cane-related issues that we are all so painfully aware of.
he's pretty much said that i can do whatever i want outside of lessons, but so far i've been just playing cane all the time for simplicity's sake. part of me is also curious to just run with cane for a while, since the other things he's had me do differently are working so well... his argument against the synthetics is that he thinks they don't sound as good as cane. he had me slap on a cane reed as soon as i had them and said that my sound was immediately better. it's interesting also because he's a jazz player, while there's a classical teacher here (a fantastic player) who swears by fibracell!
i might order a harder fibracell (to match the strength of what i'm playing now on cane) and try it out at some point, but for now i just don't have the time to mess around with two different types of reeds. also, i would be concerned about how things would work playing cane in lessons while playing fibracell everywhere else, especially since overtones react quite differently between cane and fibracell (at least for me). the other thing i really want to do when i have some time is to record myself playing on cane and then the same thing on fibracell, so that i can hear the difference myself from a listener's point of view.
one thing i hold out on, though...i always keep a fibracell in my pocket during rehearsals and gigs, cause i want to have a backup that i *know* will work. i have extra cane too, but my fibracell is my safety net.
i had played rico plasticovers (on tenor) for a long time and then switched to fibracell relatively early in their lifespan. i decided to go "back" (long story) to music school recently, and i knew full well that i might end up being forced to switch mouthpieces or reeds in school, and while i get to use whatever mouthpiece i want, my teacher made me ditch the fibracell and go to cane.
[side story: at one of the schools i auditioned at, the (legit) teacher there went so far as to say that any teacher who used fibracell didn't know what they were talking about and should be avoided! this teacher and his students can really play marvelously, so i have a lot of respect for him, but that put me off a bit. it wasn't the reason that i ended up elsewhere, but i can't say i didn't think about it...]
aside from going to cane, my teacher also had me start playing stronger reeds and altering my embouchure. the strength increase and embouchure alterations have worked beautifully, but i still have some misgivings about the cane part... now i'm dumping wads of cash on reeds again (i've spent more on reeds in the last 2 months than i would have previously spent in a year!!!) and have to deal with all the various cane-related issues that we are all so painfully aware of.
he's pretty much said that i can do whatever i want outside of lessons, but so far i've been just playing cane all the time for simplicity's sake. part of me is also curious to just run with cane for a while, since the other things he's had me do differently are working so well... his argument against the synthetics is that he thinks they don't sound as good as cane. he had me slap on a cane reed as soon as i had them and said that my sound was immediately better. it's interesting also because he's a jazz player, while there's a classical teacher here (a fantastic player) who swears by fibracell!
i might order a harder fibracell (to match the strength of what i'm playing now on cane) and try it out at some point, but for now i just don't have the time to mess around with two different types of reeds. also, i would be concerned about how things would work playing cane in lessons while playing fibracell everywhere else, especially since overtones react quite differently between cane and fibracell (at least for me). the other thing i really want to do when i have some time is to record myself playing on cane and then the same thing on fibracell, so that i can hear the difference myself from a listener's point of view.
one thing i hold out on, though...i always keep a fibracell in my pocket during rehearsals and gigs, cause i want to have a backup that i *know* will work. i have extra cane too, but my fibracell is my safety net.
OK I must confess that it's been a long time since I earned a living playing sax. I support myself/family entirely with a "day job."
For the last 5 years I have played legere reeds exclusively. Now days I play mostly community and church band stuff. So far no one has detected that I'm one of "those guys." I can hear a difference for a short time if I switch back to cane but even that is small (similar to changing brands of cane). I goes away shortly. I can't even tell the difference on recordings of myself with each reed as long as I've "warmed up" for a while. :shock:
So... play what sounds good to you and works in your hands, or mouth, whatever.
Just my $0.02
john
For the last 5 years I have played legere reeds exclusively. Now days I play mostly community and church band stuff. So far no one has detected that I'm one of "those guys." I can hear a difference for a short time if I switch back to cane but even that is small (similar to changing brands of cane). I goes away shortly. I can't even tell the difference on recordings of myself with each reed as long as I've "warmed up" for a while. :shock:
So... play what sounds good to you and works in your hands, or mouth, whatever.
Just my $0.02
john
Joined
·
246 Posts
good thread
this summer i was visiting family who happen to be friends with Paul Brody. an well respected classical player. we had a meeting together to talk sax and he showed me a couple of horns. and we talked reeds and mouthpieces for a good portion of our visit.
in the early days of my sax playing i played bari synthetics but i have been strictly cane for years. mr brody surprised me by asking me if i had tried synthetics at all lately as in his opinion they were getting quite good and they weere very consistant. he mentioned that there is a reedmaker in southern ontario somewhere who was making really fine reeds. (possibly in the trenton/ bellville area, if any one knows who this is could you please post his name or brand). i'm sorry that i did not copy down this info at the time we got together as i had never considered using synths since i abandoned them decades ago. i may be starting to open my mind to them again though as i can go through a lot of cane when i am playing all day every day.
mr Brody has the sweetest tone on his horns so i'm sure he would not have brought this up without cause. he is 100% legit
this summer i was visiting family who happen to be friends with Paul Brody. an well respected classical player. we had a meeting together to talk sax and he showed me a couple of horns. and we talked reeds and mouthpieces for a good portion of our visit.
in the early days of my sax playing i played bari synthetics but i have been strictly cane for years. mr brody surprised me by asking me if i had tried synthetics at all lately as in his opinion they were getting quite good and they weere very consistant. he mentioned that there is a reedmaker in southern ontario somewhere who was making really fine reeds. (possibly in the trenton/ bellville area, if any one knows who this is could you please post his name or brand). i'm sorry that i did not copy down this info at the time we got together as i had never considered using synths since i abandoned them decades ago. i may be starting to open my mind to them again though as i can go through a lot of cane when i am playing all day every day.
mr Brody has the sweetest tone on his horns so i'm sure he would not have brought this up without cause. he is 100% legit
Joined
·
2,655 Posts
Mr. Brody is probably speaking about Legere reeds. They are produced in Barrie, Ontario. Here's a link -- http://www.legere.com
A couple of months ago I was talking with Ralph Morgan (great mouthpiece designer) and I mentioned to him that I've been having excellent results with Legere reeds. Ralph told me how he had a very long talk with Guy Legere several years ago at a convention and it was clear to Ralph that Guy knows what he's doing with the development of his synthetic reeds. Given how DEEP Ralph is, his comment about Guy Legere is a supreme compliment.
I should also mention that several top level classical clarinet mouthpiece designers -- such as Walter Grabner to name just one -- face serveral of their mouthpiece models to work well with Legere reeds. Walter specifically says "Legere reed-friendly" for a number of mouthpiece models on his web site:
http://www.clarinetxpress.com/kstyle.html . I don't know of another brand of synthetic reeds that has received this level of treatment in classical clarinet circles. I'm currently using two of Walter's mouthpieces. Legere reeds (especially the Quebec model) have a stunningly beautiful sound on Grabner mouthpieces. I'm also getting equally good results with Legere on my Morgan 6C tenor saxophone mouthpiece and RM10 mouthpiece on C clarinet.
Roger
A couple of months ago I was talking with Ralph Morgan (great mouthpiece designer) and I mentioned to him that I've been having excellent results with Legere reeds. Ralph told me how he had a very long talk with Guy Legere several years ago at a convention and it was clear to Ralph that Guy knows what he's doing with the development of his synthetic reeds. Given how DEEP Ralph is, his comment about Guy Legere is a supreme compliment.
I should also mention that several top level classical clarinet mouthpiece designers -- such as Walter Grabner to name just one -- face serveral of their mouthpiece models to work well with Legere reeds. Walter specifically says "Legere reed-friendly" for a number of mouthpiece models on his web site:
http://www.clarinetxpress.com/kstyle.html . I don't know of another brand of synthetic reeds that has received this level of treatment in classical clarinet circles. I'm currently using two of Walter's mouthpieces. Legere reeds (especially the Quebec model) have a stunningly beautiful sound on Grabner mouthpieces. I'm also getting equally good results with Legere on my Morgan 6C tenor saxophone mouthpiece and RM10 mouthpiece on C clarinet.
Roger
21 - 40 of 74 Posts
