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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Disabling the Eb fork on an old Selmer New York , either a Buescher or Martin.I corked the pad solid,removed spring and now the F# seems to not work right,sluggish.I will try adding spring tension tomorrow.Am I missing something ? I searched for old threads with no luck.
 

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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Normally people just simply reverse the spring on the key so it forces the key closed instead of open, and that's all you'll need to do on a Buescher stencil. I can't speak for the Martin though. Certain butcher-like people sometimes solder a US nickel over the tone hole and remove the closing mechanism entirely.

My vote is on the reversible method.
 

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1926 Buescher TT Alto, 1936 Holton Revelation Tenor, 1954 Holton 271 Bari
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Why disable it?
As much as I've heard, that key is notoriously susceptible to leaks or other such issues. My TT's spring is reversed currently, but when I get it overhauled I'll see how it works.
 

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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It's no more susceptible to leaking than any other key. That said, it's probably because it's unused and why take any risks on something you don't want? Sounds like an urban legend to me. Flip the spring the other direction and be done with it.
 

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It's no more susceptible to leaking than any other key. That said, it's probably because it's unused and why take any risks on something you don't want? Sounds like an urban legend to me. Flip the spring the other direction and be done with it.
Yes it is - but not for the reason you might think!
More often than not the tone hole is surrounded by a non-removable guard - which makes it hard to access the key cup when setting the pad...so it's often the case that this is the worst-set pad on the whole instrument.
Another significant cause of leaks is free play in the lever key. They typically have very short barrels (if any), which often means it's the most wobbly key on the whole instrument.

None of this is a problem to a good tech.

For the OP - disabling the Eb trill key cup will take its spring out of play, so the touchpiece is no longer powered. This means it's now down to the E key spring to carry the extra load. A bit more tension on the spring will sort it.

Regards,
 

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Stephen seems to give the definitive answer to the question. However, I'd like to put in a plea for the forked Eb. I found it very useful on my 10M - maybe also because the moving from the Eb thouch to the C isn't very smooth on this horn. With the alternate Eb the playing of the C#, B, F#, Ab scale, and the C minor triad, in the low register, is very much smoother. I actually miss it on my S20.

Reine
 

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I've seen a few instances where the forked Eb vent has been disabled (wedged shut with a wine cork) and the RH2 touchpiece has been glued to the pad cup - sometimes the Eb vent pad had been superglued to the tonehole!

It's not the most perfect of mechanisms but it doesn't take much to set it up so it works as it should do. It's reliant on the ventings all being set properly (as well as the pads all seating properly) and adjusted by bending the touchpiece to be sure RH2 closes both the pad directly beneath it and the forked Eb vent, as well as using silencing materials that have the least friction. RH3 will hold the RH2 pad cup closed so the trill can be done with RH2.

Another urban myth I was told was it's an F vent - but as F issues from a tonehole with a much larger tonehole below it, the note F doesn't need any further venting than it already has so an F vent isn't needed on saxes (as opposed to oboes/cors/d'amores and German/Oehler system clarinets where F is fingered xxx|xox).

The only decent forked Eb mechanism you will encounter is found on Conn X-bar baris as the forked Eb tonehole is much larger and placed further down the instrument (on the narrow branch of the bow almost opposite the standard Eb tonehole) to give a better quality note (instead of a stifled one) and also inline with the rest of the RH main action toneholes so the venting will be good. The forked Eb pad cup is also directly connected to the RH2 fingerplate instead of incorporating a sliding linkage as on altos and tenors. But baris have more room for this compared to altos and tenors which is why they have the small tonehole placed higher up the joint (just above the joint ring).

Other versions of the Eb trill have a perforated pad cup (like a flute pad cup or the open C# vent on some sopranos but huge) for Eb to issue through RH3 and RH finger 2 has a bis key-style arrangement so RH finger 2 holds down both RH2 and the smaller (bis key-like) RH3 pearl, and the trill is done with RH3 - the RH3 pearl is connected to a piggy-back style pad cup (like the C# vent on some sopranos) that covers/uncovers the perforation in the RH3 pad cup for the Eb.
 

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Forum Contributor 2012, SOTW Saxophone Whisperer,
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Another urban myth I was told was it's an F vent - but as F issues from a tonehole with a much larger tonehole below it, the note F doesn't need any further venting than it already has so an F vent isn't needed on saxes (as opposed to oboes/cors/d'amores and German/Oehler system clarinets where F is fingered xxx|xox).
I am not so sure that one is a myth.

As a tech who used a Conn Chu Alto for over 10 years as my main gigging horn, closing off the forked Eb ABSOLUTELY had an impact on the intonation of the F. I actually closed off the pad one day because I thought it was leaking and I didn't have time to address it, and that night on the gig I was fighting pitch on the F in such a way that it couldn't be ignored. Later checked it with a tuner and yes, it was certainly different than with the Forked Eb pad open.

I encourage all my customers with that option to leave it enabled for that very reason.

Charlie
 

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If one is going to disable the key (which I don't recommend), the only way to have the E key feel somewhat normal is to adhere the touchpiece to the keycup. A good quality double stick tape can be used to do this and it is completely reversible without causing cosmetic damage.

No one has yet mentioned the idea of retaining the "historic integrity" of the instrument by leaving it just as it was designed to play.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Such interesting replies on this,now I have some options at this point.I am going to enable the Fork Eb and see how the intonation is.I also have a King Voll True Alto that I just finished and disabled that Eb f cup with no problems.Despite warnings of the King being full of intonation issues it plays (tuned to F#) at most 4-6 cents either way through scale.
 

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On my Handcraft, I patched the Eb hole and removed all the unnecessary key-work, leaving hinge rods spacers where needed and brazing the E finger touch to the E pad cup. Light/fast action now.
 

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No one has yet mentioned the idea of retaining the "historic integrity" of the instrument by leaving it just as it was designed to play.
It's not as if it has to be a permanent mod - as the most basic level in would require the removal of the lump of cork holding the Eb pad down.
I specialise in this kind of (cough) restoration...but I charge big-time for it...sometimes as much as 20p.

If you've gone for the 'deluxe' mod, whereby a small groove is filed into the spring hanger on the opposite side to the existing groove, it's merely a matter of reversing the spring.

It's something people can try at their leisure, and doesn't have to involve the removal of any material at all - unlike many other mods and techniques.

Regards,
 

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My TT Bari has the forked eb but it's never been operational. I can't seem to figure out how to reverse it to it's original state, so I currently have the key corked shut. I think, maybe something has been removed but Ive never seen another TT Bari or pictures of that specific area.
 
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