[youngsaxman]

Hi Guys and Girlz,

I have myself one of these units, and plan on perhaps using it live...? However, after many hours playing/tweaking it, I am not convinced that I have created any decent patches! I was just wondering if anyone else had had any luck with it, creating a decent reverb or delay patch, and if so, would you happen to know what the settings were that you set it up with?

Many thanks in anticipation,

youngsaxman

 

[Nobby Keys]

I use mine mainly for Reverb. I will have a look and get back to you with the settings I use.

 

[youngsaxman]

Thanks Nobby Keys, that'd be great...

 

[Fader]

Just a note of caution (from experience) about reverb on live gigs....Many (most) rooms are more than sufficiently reverberant. (sp) Having both mixed sound and been a performer, I can't tell you how many times I've heard the sound of guitars and horns just washed out of existance by the time it got to the back of the room. A cood delay and perhaps a bit of chorus can do alot more in a live setting to improve your sound. That being said, there are some rooms that are pretty dead and reverb can sound great in these, but they are few and far between. Simply clap your hands in the middle of the room to get an idea how reverberant the natural space is before applying your reverb. Brick and / or wood walls can sound great without any help at all. Rooms with heavy drapes and padded seats may need some help.....

 

[Nobby Keys]

Here are my settings for a Reverb I use for Tenor:

Comp - On Gain 2 Low
Mic Pre/Voice - Tubepre 1, Gain 8, De Ess 1, Level 25
EQ - 0,0,0
Gate - Off
Effect - Off
Delay - Off
Reverb - Plate 2, Decay 60, Damping 0, Revlvl 70
Expression - Pedal 1, Rvb In, Min 10, Max 99

This is a reasonable basic Reverb - you can adapt it from this start.

This means that I can use the Pedal to control how much reverb, from practically nothing to full on. I agree that you will have to judge the room, and of course what sort of music you are playing will dictate how much effect.

Don't have too much level on any effect as this will cause feedback problems, I have all mine at 25 and the feedback problem is elliminated.

Best of luck.

 

[youngsaxman]

I'l be sure to give that a try...thanks very much for that.

 

[Cameron Wigmore]

Don't have too much level on any effect as this will cause feedback problems, I have all mine at 25 and the feedback problem is elliminated.

Best of luck.

This feedback problem seems to be easily resolved by reducing the levels for each effect and using the compressor/limiter on some effects like wah.

I've read that the signal from the V 300 can be very hot, even with the patches set quieter/lower. Some say feedback can occur even when the gain is low and the compressor/limiter is turned up, monitor is a good distance away, band is not too loud, etc...

This is my plan:
mic - Sure 57
xlr cable to Digitech V 300
out via xlr (or 1/4 jack if signal is too hot) from V300 to
*maybe* Active DI box, to
Keyboard amp - Roland KC150 or comparable

How does that sound? Can I do it without the DI box being used to reduce and even out the signal level for every patch, or maybe with just a passive DI box? Could I just go out directly to my keyb. amp/monitor?

Thanks in advance!

 

[hakukani]

Don't have too much level on any effect as this will cause feedback problems, I have all mine at 25 and the feedback problem is elliminated.

Best of luck.

This feedback problem seems to be easily resolved by reducing the levels for each effect and using the compressor/limiter on some effects like wah.

I've read that the signal from the V 300 can be very hot, even with the patches set quieter/lower. Some say feedback can occur even when the gain is low and the compressor/limiter is turned up, monitor is a good distance away, band is not too loud, etc...

This is my plan:
mic - Sure 57, 58, or Sennheiser 815
xlr cable to Digitech V 300
out via 1/4 jack from V300 to
Active DI box, to
Keyboard amp - Roland KC150 or comparable

How does that sound? Can I do it without the DI box being used to reduce and even out the signal level for every patch, or maybe with just a passive DI box? Could I just go out directly to my keyb. amp/monitor?

Thanks in advance!

IMO the best way is to get a small mixer and set up an effects loop.
The signal goes into an input channel via XLR. A post-fader aux send is then used to feed the input of your device (digitech etc). The output of your device is then brought back line level into your small mixer via a line level input or effects return.

Balance the effected input with your dry input. Use the main output to feed your keyboard amp and/or send another out to the house mix. The house sound engineer can then choose whether he wants to use a line level signal or use a DI to his position.

 

[Cameron Wigmore]

IMO the best way is to get a small mixer and set up an effects loop.
The signal goes into an input channel via XLR. A post-fader aux send is then used to feed the input of your device (digitech etc). The output of your device is then brought back line level into your small mixer via a line level input or effects return.

Balance the effected input with your dry input. Use the main output to feed your keyboard amp and/or send another out to the house mix. The house sound engineer can then choose whether he wants to use a line level signal or use a DI to his position.

Thanks for the reply Hakukani.

I don't think I'll be buying a mixer, although I appreciate your suggestion. It does make sense. I was told by someone else that if the sound guy wants to take a signal out of my pedal rather than from my monitor/amp they will likely use a DI and split it so I can run from the pedal to my monitor and they won't have to go from my monitor but instead can take the signal straight from the pedal.

As for mixing my dry sound, the patches allow for that to be be set for each effect, so I can have my own sax sound as present as I want in each patch.

My big question is whether I'm missing something in my setup. I've come to suspect that a DI box isn't what I want to use for lowering the signal. Maybe a limiter between the pedal and my amp, but again I want to avoid the extra expense. I think I will be able to avoid any feedback problems while performing in a high volume room, and I expect that my amp should be able to give me the effects volume I'll need to compete with the other instruments.

 

[hakukani]

IMO the best way is to get a small mixer and set up an effects loop.
The signal goes into an input channel via XLR. A post-fader aux send is then used to feed the input of your device (digitech etc). The output of your device is then brought back line level into your small mixer via a line level input or effects return.

Balance the effected input with your dry input. Use the main output to feed your keyboard amp and/or send another out to the house mix. The house sound engineer can then choose whether he wants to use a line level signal or use a DI to his position.

Thanks for the reply Hakukani.

I don't think I'll be buying a mixer, although I appreciate your suggestion. It does make sense. I was told by someone else that if the sound guy wants to take a signal out of my pedal rather than from my monitor/amp they will likely use a DI and split it so I can run from the pedal to my monitor and they won't have to go from my monitor but instead can take the signal straight from the pedal.

As for mixing my dry sound, the patches allow for that to be be set for each effect, so I can have my own sax sound as present as I want in each patch.

My big question is whether I'm missing something in my setup. I've come to suspect that a DI box isn't what I want to use for lowering the signal. Maybe a limiter between the pedal and my amp, but again I want to avoid the extra expense. I think I will be able to avoid any feedback problems while performing in a high volume room, and I expect that my amp should be able to give me the effects volume I'll need to compete with the other instruments.

Nah, you don't need a limiter.

Here's a few ways to avoid feedback:
1) closer mic placement
2) lowering the level of the feedback frequency (usually a parametric eq works best, with filter around 1/6 octave, depending on other factors)
3) change the position of your monitor (usually closer to your ear, with in-ears being the ideal solution)
4) Change the time (usually by adding delay) that your signal reaches your monitor.
5) turn down the stage volume
6) minimize the number of open mikes
7) sometimes a larger stage helps, so there's no 'leakage' between mikes (drums and guitars being picked up by vocal mikes etc.)

 

[saxomophone]

I use a Vocal 300 in live settings at bit. If you can, try and get a quick sound check to make sure your volume when using the effects is the same as when you have it on bypass. That is where you can run into some feedback issues--at least that has been the case with mine.

I understand why there is both an input volume nob and an effect volume, but if you're not careful you might hit the foot switch and find your volume way to hot and then its feedback city.

There was a pretty long thread about this unit a while ago that had some detailed settings listed. You might want to do a search and find it.

 

[Cameron Wigmore]

thanks for the "feedback"!

 

[Cameron Wigmore]

I just bought mine. I will figure out some useful settings and post them here, along with some video samples with clips of the different effects. It'll probably take me a few weeks to get it all figured out and dialed in.

Check out this thread too: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=102423

 

[Cameron Wigmore]

make sure your volume when using the effects is the same as when you have it on bypass. That is where you can run into some feedback issues--at least that has been the case with mine.

I understand why there is both an input volume nob and an effect volume, but if you're not careful you might hit the foot switch and find your volume way to hot and then its feedback city.

I've done some work on the settings now. I have the input gain nob set at 9 o'clock and it only slightly clips with very loud D or low Bb.

I've set the compressor at "low" for every effect.

I've set the limiter to about 80 for every effect. Any lower (below 75) and too much ambient sound comes into the mic (a Shure 57) and any higher (above 86) and I can't use dynamics at all - it just cuts me off as I fade in volume.

For most effects I'm using the "tube" preamp setting with gain at zero and volume set to 60. Depending on the effect this can be just as loud as bypass.

I've set the low, mid and high EQ down to between -3 and -5 for most effects, but with lower settings (around -9) for low, mid or high for a couple of effects if needed.

I've set the expression pedal to vocvol (volume) with low at zero and high at 70. This way I have a little wiggle room if my signal - set to 60 - is too quiet, and in case of feedback I can stomp it out and raise it back up to just under full volume. I came up with that idea by accident when I had the preamp level at 60 and the pedal was factory set on that patch to vocvol to go up to 99. I just touched the pedal and my signal shot WAY up.

I checked the levels as best I could with my monitor volume quite high in a small room, and with headphones as well, and these settings make the effects sound roughly as loud as bypass.

I will test this out on a show in a month and post the results along with the patches that really work for me.

 

[Cameron Wigmore]

Nah, you don't need a limiter.

Here's a few ways to avoid feedback:
1) closer mic placement
2) lowering the level of the feedback frequency (usually a parametric eq works best, with filter around 1/6 octave, depending on other factors)
3) change the position of your monitor (usually closer to your ear, with in-ears being the ideal solution)
4) Change the time (usually by adding delay) that your signal reaches your monitor.
5) turn down the stage volume
6) minimize the number of open mikes
7) sometimes a larger stage helps, so there's no 'leakage' between mikes (drums and guitars being picked up by vocal mikes etc.)

Thanks for the great tips!

I have my mic anywhere from an inch in the bell to 4 inches away. I can stay on a mic pretty well so I'm not worried about straying away too much.

I'll make sure that no guitar amps are pointed at my mic, and that my monitor is close but safely outside of the mic's pickup pattern.

 

[Cameron Wigmore]

I have uploaded some sound samples of the patches I've created on my Digitech vocal300.

Here's the first of 5 videos, with a wah demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdVnTOw_ZT4

 

[Cameron Wigmore]

I've updated this previous post below because I've adjusted a few things after using this fx pedal for a few shows.

I've done some work on the settings now. I have the input gain nob set at 9 o'clock and it only slightly clips with very loud D or low Bb.

This has proven to be a good setting. It's quite low and the signal rarely clips.

I've set the compressor at "low" for every effect.

Also seems to be a good setting.

I've set the limiter to about 80 for every effect. Any lower (below 75) and too much ambient sound comes into the mic (a Shure 57) and any higher (above 86) and I can't use dynamics at all - it just cuts me off as I fade in volume.

Also a good setting. At 50 to 70 a lot of other adio sources bleed in (such as a nearby keyboard or guitar monitor) and some effects with lots of reverb or delay will kick in from those other sources. At 85 to 95 I actually lose a split second of my articulation/attack, and dynamics are impossible becuase as I reduce my blowing volume from ff to mp, the mic just cuts out.

Setting the limiter to between 76 and 82 is perfect for a horn on a loud stage.

For most effects I'm using the "tube" preamp setting with gain at zero and volume set to 60. Depending on the effect this can be just as loud as bypass.

I've changed this to 75 0r 80, and even up to 85 for a few patches. I realized that zero is basically "mute", but bypass is still full volume (whatever the gain knob and master level are set at) so I should have my patches at near full volume (just under 100) and I've been increasing each patch a little at every show. I've been told that some patches are too quiet and that my clean sound (bypass) is quite loud, so I think this is a good plan.

I've set the low, mid and high EQ down to between -3 and -5 for most effects, but with lower settings (around -9) for low, mid or high for a couple of effects if needed.

I changed this to -2 for low and high, and whatever the mid required. Having the ability to adjust what frequency the mid knob controls is great. Sometimes I boost the mid at a specific frequency to get an effect to sound different. Some heavier effects like phaser or flange, depending on the parameter settings, can require the treble to be dialed right down to -10. Another related point is that when I have the pitch doubler set to an octave down I set the bass at about -5 so that my low notes don't blow the speakers.

I've set the expression pedal to vocvol (volume) with low at zero and high at 70. This way I have a little wiggle room if my signal - set to 60 - is too quiet, and in case of feedback I can stomp it out and raise it back up to just under full volume. I came up with that idea by accident when I had the preamp level at 60 and the pedal was factory set on that patch to vocvol to go up to 99. I just touched the pedal and my signal shot WAY up.

Now that my levels are closer to 75, I've set the vocvol max to about 85. This has come in handy on a couple of occasions.

I checked the levels as best I could with my monitor volume quite high in a small room, and with headphones as well, and these settings make the effects sound roughly as loud as bypass.

I'd like to get a signal meter to really get this exact.

I will test this out on a show in a month and post the results along with the patches that really work for me.

I do intend to post some different patch settings that are working for me at some point in the future.

 

[Cameron Wigmore]

Below are a few of my patch settings on the digitech vocal 300 pedal.

Master level left at 50 which is the bootup setting.

wahsax
COMPRESSOR - on - low - gain:0
MIC PRE/VOICE - Tubepre, gain:0, DeEss:1, Level:91
EQUALIZER - B:-1, M:-4, M:1258, T:-1
GATE - on, Thresh:81
EFFECTS - envelop/8, Range:18, Sensitivity:60, FXmix:75
DELAY - Analog, 100ms, Feedback:15, DelayLevel:20
REVERB - Hall, Decay:20, Damp:50, ReverbLevel:30
EXPRESSION - Pedal1, Voxlvl, Min:0, Max:97

delay
COMPRESSOR - on - low - gain:0
MIC PRE/VOICE - Tubepre, gain:0, DeEss:1, Level:78
EQUALIZER - B:-1, M:-2, M:1837, T:-2
GATE - on, Thresh:77
EFFECTS - off
DELAY - Analog, 160ms, Feedback:22, DelayLevel:18
REVERB - Hall, Decay:20, Damp:50, ReverbLevel:30
EXPRESSION - Pedal1, Voxlvl, Min:0, Max:88

4th stack
COMPRESSOR - on - low - gain:0
MIC PRE/VOICE - darkside/4, breath:1, Level:60
EQUALIZER - B:-4, M:-3, M:756, T:-2
GATE - on, Thresh:83
EFFECTS - pitch/11, shift:7, FXlvl:40
DELAY - Analog, 120ms, Feedback:18, DelayLevel:17
REVERB - Hall, Decay:18, Damp:48, ReverbLevel:25
EXPRESSION - Pedal1, Voxlvl, Min:0, Max:75

flange
COMPRESSOR - on - low - gain:0
MIC PRE/VOICE - Tubepre, gain:0, DeEss:8, Level:70
EQUALIZER - B:-2, M:-6, M:1837, T:-8
GATE - on, Thresh:80
EFFECTS - flange, speed:23, depth:6, FXmix:55
DELAY - digital, 120ms, Feedback:15, DelayLevel:15
REVERB - Hall, Decay:14, Damp:48, ReverbLevel:15
EXPRESSION - Pedal1, Voxlvl, Min:0, Max:80

octave down
COMPRESSOR - on - low - gain:0
MIC PRE/VOICE - Tubepre, gain:0, DeEss:1, Level:75
EQUALIZER - B:-5, M:-2, M:1065, T:-2
GATE - on, Thresh:80
EFFECTS - pitch/11, Shift:-12, FXlvl:80
DELAY - digital, 100ms, Feedback:18, DelayLevel:18
REVERB - Hall, Decay:13, Damp:50, ReverbLevel:25
EXPRESSION - Pedal1, Voxlvl, Min:0, Max:85

I have a bunch more, but this is a starting point for anyone who is looking to create some sounds.

Reverb and delay are minimal.

Play around with the range and sensitivity on the envelope filter. Be careful not to "swallow" the mic with you bell as it will significantly affect the envelope and can cause feedback.

In these patches the expression pedal is a volume "safety/boost", meaning that if a patch is too low I can pull the pedal back and then back forward, raising the maxvol a bit, or, if there's feedback I can dial down to zero and then bring it up only part way so it's quieter.

Have fun!

 

[sw3119]

Cameron,

Thanks for putting these patches up. I'll have some fun trying them out.

I recently started using this pedal, but I have not played a gig with it or even had the opportunity to go through a P.A. system with it. (I'm just going through a small fender amp for practices right now.)

I have one question for you or anyone else using this pedal.

I know that you are using your own amp for sound, but I'm going to be sending a line to the sound man and I'm wondering if I should put any reverb on my effects or let the sound man put reverb on my channel the same as he would if I had no effects. I'm worried that if I put the reverb on myself, then if I go into bypass mode I'll have a dry signal going through the P.A. If the sound man has reverb on my channel and I have reverb on my effects I'm worried that it might be too much.

Do you have reverb on your amp so you can bypass and still have a nice sound, or do you avoid using the bypass when performing.

 

[Slab Hardcheese]

Wow. This unit looks really handy. How is the audio quality? Is there any hiss? Considering it is Digitech it should be pretty good.