Did I buy a scam SA80 series II?

5445 Views 129 Replies 39 Participants Last post by xrb, 4 h ago

Lobster Troubador

Discussion Starter · 8 d ago

3

Got this horn a couple years ago during the pandemic as an upgrade from my Jupiter tenor. It was from a private seller on Reverb at the time and I thought everything checked out. Horn plays way better than my Jupiter, so I never really thought anything of it. The price was about comparable to other used series II that I was ($2500).

Fast forward to today where I was looking up the serial number to find out what year the instrument was produced. None of the serial numbers on the internet match up to the age this horn should be.
The identification is written as follows
STS-802
00858xxx
MADE IN FRANCE

When I was looking for this "sts-802" info, the only relevant searches all turned back links to counterfeit selmers. None of the serial numbers seem to have the two zeroes before the numbers...

Seriously, did I get scammed?

Pictures attached

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SimonJazzSax

· #2 · 8 d ago

Unfortunately based on those pictures, it is indeed a counterfeit. I'm very sorry.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

Reactions: 3

milandro

· #3 · 8 d ago

this is not a Selmer , sorry.

Reactions: 1

SteveS

· #4 · 8 d ago

Completely bogus. What's especially unfortunate is the price paid.

And this is why SOTW forbids the sale of counterfeit horns (not that we think you will!) even when the seller discloses the fakery and prices the horn accordingly. What invariably happens is someone down the line will sell the horn as genuine, pricing it as a genuine horn. And that's what has happened here.

It IS fortunate that this horn still plays better than the one you had. Might as well keep it and enjoy it.

Reactions: 2

Dr G

· #5 · 8 d ago (Edited)

Lobster Troubador said:
Got this horn a couple years ago during the pandemic as an upgrade from my Jupiter tenor. It was from a private seller on Reverb at the time and I thought everything checked out. Horn plays way better than my Jupiter, so I never really thought anything of it. The price was about comparable to other used series II that I was ($2500).

Fast forward to today where I was looking up the serial number to find out what year the instrument was produced. None of the serial numbers on the internet match up to the age this horn should be.
The identification is written as follows
STS-802
00858xxx
MADE IN FRANCE

When I was looking for this "sts-802" info, the only relevant searches all turned back links to counterfeit selmers. None of the serial numbers seem to have the two zeroes before the numbers...

Seriously, did I get scammed?

Sorry to hear of this. Yes, you were scammed.

Is that seller still active? If so, it might be useful to share the information here to raise awareness for others, even if the seller fails to resolve your experience.

For example, see this thread.

www.saxontheweb.net

Beware of SOTW Member sunpowerusa

I recently purchased an aristocrat tenor without a neck from this SOTW member. He lives in California I am in NY. He was suppose to of shipped it out on Monday 4/17/23. It is now 11 days+ later and no horn. I have asked this member 4 times for a tracking number without a reply. When we were...

www.saxontheweb.net

www.saxontheweb.net

dexdex

· #6 · 8 d ago

Oh man, so sorry.

Lobster Troubador

Discussion Starter · #7 · 8 d ago

Wow thanks everyone.

So I actually bought it through Victor Litz MUSIC reverb. I bought it there for the express reason I knew of the business and assumed it would be in decent condition. I will have to give them a call...

buddy lee

· #8 · 8 d ago

Lobster Troubador said:
Wow thanks everyone.

So I actually bought it through Victor Litz MUSIC reverb. I bought it there for the express reason I knew of the business and assumed it would be in decent condition. I will have to give them a call...

As this was a Revwrb purchase you should be covered

Sacks Of Phones

· #9 · 8 d ago

Lobster Troubador said:
Wow thanks everyone.

So I actually bought it through Victor Litz MUSIC reverb. I bought it there for the express reason I knew of the business and assumed it would be in decent condition. I will have to give them a call...

Hopefully there is no "statute of limitations" on this.

milandro

· #10 · 8 d ago

Lobster Troubador said:
Wow thanks everyone.

So I actually bought it through Victor Litz MUSIC reverb. I bought it there for the express reason I knew of the business and assumed it would be in decent condition. I will have to give them a call...

Well a shop selling a fake is actually liable for prosecution

Reactions: 2

saxcop

· #11 · 8 d ago

Reverb will not get involved in this year's later. Hopefully the seller does the right thing.

Reactions: 1

Lobster Troubador

Discussion Starter · #12 · 8 d ago

buddy lee said:
As this was a Revwrb purchase you should be covered

But three years later? Let's hope.

Either way, I guess that's what being is musician is about...working with the gear you have, lol. The horn plays pretty well, but the palm keys have always been sharper than what I've experienced across other horns.

Litz music actually told me buyer beware, which is pretty scummy. They denied responsibility and talked to someone at conn selmer USA who said it was "probably" a Selmer with no verification of provenance. I emailed Selmer Paris directly through their contact submission because I want proof before jumping to anything resembling legal action.

More than likely, I'm just gonna get stuck with this thing because I don't feel like dealing with all the time and emotional involved in trying to get a refund...will report back with information straight from Selmer if and when I hear anything.

milandro

· #13 · 8 d ago

saxcop said:
Reverb will not get involved in this year's later. Hopefully the seller does the right thing.

The seller is a shop and if OP has a receipt it can file a complaint with the authorities and regardless of reverb or even how long ago this was done this could get the shop into SERIOUS problems.

Being a shop brings this thing into a completely different ballpark.

Besides if the item was paid by means of PayPal or a credit card they could retrieve the money for you.

I think that this should be reported anyway . The return of the money is the first ting but they should also be seriously fined. I am sure that the legal tem of Selmer (distributed in the US by Conn Selmer which is a different company when it comes to making but not the distribution) would be VERY interested to assist OP with any legal moves.

the FBI is involved in this because it was an on line sale

Reporting an Online Vendor Selling fakes | STOPfakes.gov - Intellectual Property Rights Resources and Assistance

Have you bought a counterfeit or pirated product? Report the retailer to these U.S. government agencies.

www.stopfakes.gov

www.stopfakes.gov

Reactions: 5

xrb

· #14 · 8 d ago

Lobster Troubador said:
But three years later? Let's hope.

Either way, I guess that's what being is musician is about...working with the gear you have, lol. The horn plays pretty well, but the palm keys have always been sharper than what I've experienced across other horns.

Litz music actually told me buyer beware, which is pretty scummy. They denied responsibility and talked to someone at conn selmer USA who said it was "probably" a Selmer with no verification of provenance. I emailed Selmer Paris directly through their contact submission because I want proof before jumping to anything resembling legal action.

More than likely, I'm just gonna get stuck with this thing because I don't feel like dealing with all the time and emotional involved in trying to get a refund...will report back with information straight from Selmer if and when I hear anything.

I find it hard to believe a shop can sell counterfeit goods for thousands of dollars and state "buyer beware". Did you sign any sort of release stating they are not responsible for the authenticity of second hand products that they sell?

Selling counterfeit goods is not legal. I suspect a few posts about this on social media (facebook, twitter) and the shop will realize they are at great risk, assuming they are a real shop and they still sell instruments. No one would deal with them if you show the proof they sold a fake and later told you "buyer beware"

Reactions: 4

Lobster Troubador

Discussion Starter · #15 · 8 d ago

Trust me, when I get proof from Selmer, I'll make some noise.

Reactions: 2

Dr G

· #16 · 8 d ago

2

From Saxpics.com SELMER Super Action 80 serie II - Lacquer Photos | Saxophone.org

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LeblancBoy

· #17 · 8 d ago (Edited)

I did a bit of snooping and discovered that their website, victorlitz.com , shows a Selmer Super Action 80 Serie III for sale. The serial number seems to be N. 587073 Selmer Super Action 80 Series III Tenor Saxophone With Case 2000 Brass Price $3,999 - Victor Litz
The asking price is $3,999.99
Perhaps, if this is a real Selmer, you might contact them and work out a trade?
N.B. The photo with the serial number wasn't too good. It might be N. 687073, 887073 or 987073. Litz Music Center could verify the correct number.

Reactions: 2

Lobster Troubador

Discussion Starter · #18 · 8 d ago

LeblancBoy said:
I did a bit of snooping and discovered that their website, victorlitz.com , shows a Selmer Super Action 80 Serie III for sale. The serial number seems to be N. 587073 Selmer Super Action 80 Series III Tenor Saxophone With Case 2000 Brass Price $3,999 - Victor Litz
The asking price is $3,999.99
Perhaps, if this is a real Selmer, you might contact them and work out a trade?
N.B. The photo with the serial number wasn't too good. It might be N. 687073, 887073 or 987073. Litz Music Center could verify the correct number.

Considering they have already denied responsibility, I doubt they'll offer a trade. Let's hope Selmer can help...

Dr G

· #19 · 8 d ago

Lobster Troubador said:
But three years later? Let's hope.

Either way, I guess that's what being is musician is about...working with the gear you have, lol. The horn plays pretty well, but the palm keys have always been sharper than what I've experienced across other horns.

Litz music actually told me buyer beware, which is pretty scummy. They denied responsibility and talked to someone at conn selmer USA who said it was "probably" a Selmer with no verification of provenance.

Do you have receipts and pictures from their Reverb ad?

I wouldn't have screenshots of ads either, so don't beat yourself up over coulda/woulda/shoulda.

Reactions: 1

Lobster Troubador

Discussion Starter · #20 · 8 d ago

Dr G said:
Do you have receipts and pictures from their Reverb ad?

I wouldn't have screenshots of ads either, so don't beat yourself up over coulda/woulda/shoulda.

Yes I Do have the ad pics, but now I'm realizing there are no pictures of the serial number on the ad...every other angle.

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