[Mime]

I remember of this a long time ago, but today I managed to do it (I think)
I noticed I can "tongue" much faster this way so it might actually be useful.
Any thoughts? someone know this technique?

 

[matty]

I noticed I can "tongue" much faster this way so it might actually be useful.

You mean like saying "ha ha ha ha"?

 

[Mime]

You mean like saying "ha ha ha ha"?

not really...maybe it works as describing it as the way you'd "tongue" fast whistling.

 

[gelliot2]

Beware, it can lead to sore throat problems.

 

[hakukani]

What you're describing is a glottal (throat) attack. If you listen closely to the beginning of the note, you will hear that your tone is momentarily squeezed as your throat gets into position--so is not best practice. Learn to tongue correctly, and your tone will improve. Practice tonguing and your tonguing will improve.

 

[Randy Hunter]

A good friend and musical cohort once convinced me that Charlie Parker utilized this technique in a form of triple-tongue when he would lay out three repeated sixteenth notes of the same pitch before venturing on one of those incredible blues lines he often mingled with the bop. I thought my buddy was out of his mind until I heard him replicate the technique. The triple-tongue was created using the syllables ha-ka-ta (the first being a diaphragm attack). If you have an Omni Book turn to K.C. Blues, line 3, measure 3 for a typical situation.

Randy
www.randyhunterjazz.com
(Got some free downloads there)

 

[hakukani]

A good friend and musical cohort once convinced me that Charlie Parker utilized this technique in a form of triple-tongue when he would lay out three repeated sixteenth notes of the same pitch before venturing on one of those incredible blues lines he often mingled with the bop. I thought my buddy was out of his mind until I heard him replicate the technique. The triple-tongue was created using the syllables ha-ka-ta (the first being a diaphragm attack). If you have an Omni Book turn to K.C. Blues, line 3, measure 3 for a typical situation.

Randy
www.randyhunterjazz.com
(Got some free downloads there)

I've been known to quote this one. Depending on how I feel, and the tempo, I'll either double tongue (dah-gah-dah) or doodle tongue (tah-la-tah). NOT with the throat.

 

[A.Smith]

Diaphragm tonguing can be beneficial to improving the attack of your note. In particular through providing greater air support for the tongue. By diaphragm tongue I don't mean using your throat! I mean creating the emission from the diaphragm. Jean-Marie Londiex and Marie-Bernadette Charrier are very big on practicing this. MBC was screaming at my quartet during a lesson "No tongue, no tongue" so as to use the air for the creation of the note, and the tongue for clarity.

 

[hakukani]

Diaphragm tonguing can be beneficial to improving the attack of your note. In particular through providing greater air support for the tongue. By diaphragm tongue I don't mean using your throat! I mean creating the emission from the diaphragm. Jean-Marie Londiex and Marie-Bernadette Charrier are very big on practicing this. MBC was screaming at my quartet during a lesson "No tongue, no tongue" so as to use the air for the creation of the note, and the tongue for clarity.

Practicing, yes.

By the way, just the phrase 'diaphragm tonguing' is an oxymoron

The tongue stops the reed, but the air potential should always be there to back it up. Not doing this may bring about the bwah-bwah sound, where the air comes after the articulation.

 

[A.Smith]

By the way, just the phrase 'diaphragm tonguing' is an oxymoron

In which case, I should clarify the statement by refering to it as diaphragm articulation.

 

[littlemanbighorn]

Practicing, yes.

It's a very useful technique in performance when starting notes very quietly or aiming for a very light attack. My clarinet teacher and both of my major saxophone teachers advocated using this when appropriate (and when you've practiced it enough for it to be effective.)
When done properly, with the right airstream and support from the very beginning of the note, there is a lack of bwah-bwah. This, like everything else on the saxophone, requires many many hundreds of hours of focussed, specific practicing.
Have a look at Phil Barone's recently posted tone production excercises that he learned from Joe Allard.

 

[hakukani]

IMHO, many clarinet players play bwah-bwah. So do many string players, especially cellists. Paul Tortelier, the cellist, called these 'sausages' and would romp over any student that phrased that way.

I agree that you would start a low note softly without tonguing. I also use rh pointer finger at the same time to help start the note. However, the OP was asking about using diaphragm articulation as a substitute for tonguing. It IS a POOR substitute and not best practice.