[Walter Webb]

The only thing the cops could really do is to be aware of the situation with prior notice of your coming to town, a serial number and a written copy of your demand for your property. They could possibly accompany the parties to Lance's door to take back their horns that he is Bogarting. If you still have a horn in his possession, demand it back, pronto, regardless of the level of completion. Cut your losses! In my case, upon demand, he sent the horn to me.

Regarding the Ponzi scheme idea, Lance often quotes ridiculously low prices for work, so low that you might think it should take 5 years to complete. Hence, the ever-increasing backlog. Each new payment goes to expenses, and the horn goes on the shelf.

 

[clwomack]

Ah, another MartinMods thread! I almost got kicked off the forum from the one last year, so I wont make any remarks that are "off-topic". But I do miss reading his long, drawn-out, convoluted, egotistical, narcissistic, condescending, douchery-filled posts.

 

[hakukani]

Ah, another MartinMods thread! I almost got kicked off the forum from the one last year, so I wont make any remarks that are "off-topic". But I do miss reading his long, drawn-out, convoluted, egotistical, narcissistic, condescending, douchery-filled posts.

I'm sure that if you look hard enough, you'll find several folks on here that attempt all of the above.

 

[saxphil]

Lol, douchery shows up in most threads lasting more than a page or two,
except, of course, the Stanley Cup thread.

 

[clwomack]

Yep. But MartinMods was something special.

 

[GT]

Aren't we missing a couple of posts?

 

[martinm5862]

Is it me or does the arm under the bis key look different between the two pics?

I see it also.. They are not two pics. of the same horn. Things are not what they seem.

 

[GT]

Can you elaborate on that?

 

[Henry D]

Same thing I thought.

There's no doubt but that the whole upper and lower stack have been reworked. It's a different set of key work; just look at the various pix and you'll see that the A touch is now a completely different design than the original separate rod and the extension to the arm for operating the Bis off the F# cup and its associated rod is completely different- as is the G# hold-down set up. Much of this goes down to changes needed to rework the G# into the new pinky cluster design. The lower stack would have to change, including the posts, to accomodate the removal of the forked Eb set up.

Sounds straightforward to mod until you get into the details. This horn is no longer functional either way- about half done, it's surely a mess.

A pic of the two serial numbers would be reassuring- but there's enough there that I'm prepared to believe ConnHunter on his assertion that they're pictures of the same horn.

I'd like to see the back of the lower stack where the alt Eb tonehole was. I understand posts can be taken off and any marks buffed off on a delaq'd horn with no marks- but there surely ought to be evidence of the patched tonehole unless Lance is a cosmetic wizard. None of his other work indicates such a talent and the pix thus far show no evidence on the back of the body of the tonehole's removal. That, for me, would completely settle it beyond doubt.

 

[Jorns Bergenson]

I can't believe I'm jumping in on this thread, but, without a doubt, the upper stack keys have been replaced with a set off of a Martin stencil. Same with the low Eb-C pair.

 

[maiaihii]

Sounds like this guy's been hanging out with someone else we all hate named Dave.

 

[Dave Dolson]

Walter: I agree that if a direct confrontation is in the making involving any of the folks here who are upset about this jerk's actions, that a police presence during the confrontation may be a good idea. We used to call it "keeping the peace" but would caution the responding officers not to get involved other than to ensure that no one becomes violent. DAVE

 

[buddy lee]

I see it also.. They are not two pics. of the same horn. Things are not what they seem.

When I see the pictures I assume it's because LB replaced them with keys off a different horn, not that the OP is trying to pull something.

 

[clarnibass]

Some are suggesting it is not the same sax in the two photos because the keys look different. The claim is that it's the same body. The photos clearly show where some posts used to be, exactly where they were on the original saxophone. No one is claiming the keys are the original ones so this is not a sign to this being the same saxophone or not. OTOH there is very obvious evidence that several/many keys have been changed. The "heart" of the saxophone is still the body and then it's anyone's choice whether to believe the serial number is the same or not. In a way, even if it's the same body it's not exactly the same saxophone because so much was changed. But it's more about what was sent and what was returned, how the entire process went and how long it took.

I haven't looked at the right pinky keys yet to check, but I definitely agree with Jorns that the upper stack keys look like they are from a Martin saxophone. It is also obvious where some old posts used to be.

None of his other work indicates such a talent and the pix thus far show no evidence on the back of the body of the tonehole's removal. That, for me, would completely settle it beyond doubt.

There are a couple of photos showing the trill F# tone hole removed and patched.

 

[CONN-hunter]

about LB and his behavior I prefer to not comment anymore. It was disgusting and like pulling teeth, real low life.

I wish to emphasize to all of you with the deep of my soul that I sent my Conn New Wonder I with a low serial number (probably one of the first NWs I with RTH) in an incredible good condition for its age to LB for modifications to improve the playability..
LH pinky table, bonade pipe, Neck Tenon and receiver.

I NEVER expected or asked him to strip the old lacquer (even when I was willing to accept some damage to the lacquer) and to shut down or remove ANY keys or tone holes. I had to fight hard through emails to keep him away of doing experiments on the neck and doing extensively "awful" (I saw some samples) engravings on the body.
He once sent me a picture of a really well done patch of the F#s hole, extremely well adapted to the body. I have this picture and others. But they are unfortunately in my hard drive in Central Africa together with the most of my household. It will take sometime until I can fly there again.

Well, the patch he put on this horn now and what is visible is a rude piece of brass sheet, nothing to do with the pic he sent years ago.I consider this as a betraying.
He started taking off the F#s tonehole with me terrified here on the other side, in Europe, telling me I'd love the change after the work finished. He were about to replace the tonehole higher.
Of course such dramatic modifications alter the sound and intonation of the horn but he went ahead and told I'd be happy with this all.

Being overseas was for sure my "Achilles Heel". Once I implored him to send me the sax back (2 years ago) and he answered that I used to argue like an homosexual.

Well, all what I did was to make a deal outside of eBay, as he suggested at that time. But no matter inside or outside of eBay the results would be the same , although Mr. LB knows so well how to do business on eBay in order to not get negative feedbacks. He only offers fix prices for mods. For bigger projects, which include sending your horn, he prefers outside of eBay. I have my made opinion why.


Well, now...

it is the same horn I sent or not?
Really, really hard to believe and I understand everyone in doubt here.
When, I repeat WHEN this is the same instrument we can't give Mr.LB another professional adjective than of a butcher, an ill intended and evil person.

It would be better for him indeed to look for a job, this what he does is not a job this is kidding.
I know, times are hard and he is 59 years old, not easy. But man! stop doing this game. Mr. LB you have a hill of instruments waiting for completion there. For all of them money taken in advance.
For what did you need my money if you just cannibalized my sax? (he has been reading here this thread every day)

You should pay me for the sax and not I you. You took parts out of it, you used the horn as experiment and sent it back as a crap and still, I repeat STILL missing cups.

Now , WHEN this sax is not mine... then please what happened to it? It's possible for a "technician" (?) to make such a confusion and send a crap instead of a collectors horn on which he stated to have been working on all this time? (August 2009 until April 2012)

Reader of this thread...what is worst in your opinion?

I am not looking for LB's destruction. It is quite unpleasant to talk badly about a human being, I don't wish to push this issue until the point the guy gets desperate and commit suicide for his mistakes but I'd salute when he give up his endeavor as sax innovator and repairman to avoid more pain to other people.
Give up the dream man, please wake up. You are not what you think you are. Go back playing the sax. I am sure you can do this wonderfully.

Go and look for a decent job LB. The most of us here do work hard for money.

Concerning the authenticity of this one ,by LB delivered sax, being mine or not...

2 things.

1) I know the serial number of my horn (as I guess you all also know of yours, especially if it is a collectors , rare in pristine condition Vintage)
2) My sax has ONE peculiar sign in the body and I can give 100% decisive identification through it.

Although the number Eric provided me matches, ...

(the number in this crap seems to match the number of my beauty horn, once it was and I am still waiting for more detailed pics when the sax comes back from the scared technician who evaluated it)

...through this very peculiar sign, I'd say the DNA probe of my horn, I can tell with absolutely guarantee if it's that one or not.

but sincerely?
does it matter?

I sent a beauty of a playing horn and got an irreparable piece of junk stripped of everything. Do I need a sax Lamp LB? Is that what you had in mind? for that 540 U$ (adding the shipping costs) was a way too much and the waiting time too long.

I will post the opinion of the tech on another time, preserving his name of being linked to this thread of shame. He is a honest man and doesn't wish to be included in this ridiculous case.

 

[Jazz Is All]

It is clear as day to me that what Conn-hunter says, and has been saying for over a year now on this and the other LB threads, is true. He is not the only one who has had this happen, just ask Environguy and Walter Webb, and a couple of others--which is why Mike 86'd LOB (the SOB) from SOTW. Not for nothing, for sure. IMO the main thing to be focusing on here is not whether it is the same body or not but why CH got a mutilated cadaver back instead of his living breathing vintage sax. I'm not a tech but can see that a number of the keys are not the same in both sets of photos, but so what? As he just said, it doesn't really matter if this sax is not the same one that he sent because in that case LB played a switcheroo on him and substituted an abortion for his beautiful vintage NW after keeping it for years and years. Which is worse, doing that or taking the NW and butchering it beyond recognition? Does it matter?

I think LOB is the Dr. Frankenstein of saxes, with all the same finesse too. Just read what he wrote me that I posted in my post #55:

Options: I have the original Vintage, ala my avatar, a Deluxe Vintage model (adds articulated C# and tilting Bb spatula), and a Contemporary (Mk6 adaptation) version. The Deluxe and Contemporary are much more complex designs, and require that I have your horn here and take quite a bit more time.
...................

You say you would go for the Contemporary.....why don't you just bring your sax with you to NY as Carry-On luggage? Once in NY on the 4th, you send it to me (without the case, bubble-wrapped and double boxed, it is a very light and smaller package and very safe (and cheaper) to ship. I can have most of the parts ready when your horn arrives. When it's done (before Aug. 29th), I ship it to you in NY, so you get it before you leave. No duty.

I"m also chopping the bodies in half and off-setting the lower stack 25 degrees, ala Mk6. Other options: silver solder all tone hole rings, Delaquer with raw brass or dark brown/black patina, special engraving.

The Contemporary is about 10x more parts and work than the Vintage. It costs $600. Chopping and offset - $100.

You see how he tried to entice me into sending him my horn rather than just the keys so he could do the Contemporary pinky table on it, and God forbid, chop the body in half to offset the stacks? He said it has 10X more parts and work than the Vintage that I got, and that it takes quite a bit more time. Why do you suppose he wanted to do that when he couldn't do it for Walter? Walter knows what that means in Burtoneese, and so do I now. You don't have to be a linguist to understand that he gets to keep your sax so he can experiment on it and cannibalize parts off of it. On top of it in the same breath he told me that if I mailed the horn from NY after July 4th he could do that job and have it back to me by Aug 29th.

The man is hallucinatory because he barely got my keys back to me with the basic vintage mod done on them (on the 27th) after trying to give me a revised version of the mod he was advertising and I had explicitly ordered and paid for, which he had to redo twice to give me what he had agreed to. And when I got them I found that the C# pad was burned up, which when you think about it takes effort to do because that pad is some 34 cm away from the end of the rod where he had to solder on the new key. Did you read what he wrote me when I questioned him on that?

To tell you the truth, I didn't inspect the pads when the keys arrived. I never get the torch close to that end so I don't know how it happened. I noticed it when packing the things up, but by then, the package had to be leaving. No matter anyway. Those 3 pads should be replaced since the whole C#/B/Bb mechanism is being adjusted back to your horn.

Translation into English: You must have sent it to me that way because I never get the torch near that end so I'm at a loss to otherwise explain it. It wasn't me, but anyway, so what? You will need to replace the pads...end of story.

The gall of the guy to insinuate that I sent him a burned pad. I know how it happened: he works in a small garage where he no doubt has little space to lay out a job. He probably had my four keys on the workbench and while he was soldering on one of the other keys it was too close to the pad end of the C# which then got fried. So he is either sloppy and unconscious of his work habits or is a liar. Take your pick. For me, looking at the abortion of Conn-hunter's hermaphrodite sax, I'd say LOB is totally sloppy and no doubt has keys from numerous saxes lying all about on his work tables getting intermingled and confused, if not actually consciously used for other jobs.

He has sent people back saxes in the wrong case, so clearly he has no method of tagging or sepàrating jobs. I have spent enough time at my tech's seeing how he and his assistent work rebuilding horns of all kinds and I can see that when you have a horn stripped that is a lot of parts and if you don't keep them in a separate bin for each job you can easily intermix parts. Of course in Lance's case that may not matter to him since he is doing Frankenstein cutting, chopping and soldering anyway and having different size and make keys, rods and posts probably comes in handy when he cuts one of those new toneholes of his and has to invent the mechanics of the new position.

So I think we should stop doubting Conn-Hunter about his sax and focus on helping these people get their horns back and in putting this guy out of business by cutting off his flow of innocent prospective clients. In my case I am luckier than the others, but it is just due to lack of money and the inconvenience and lack of time to bring my sax to NY, that I didn't fall into his trap and go for that deluxe job. If I could have, and I know I would have done it, my Martin would still be in Washington on some mouldy shelf in his wet garage, stripped of its parts and not worth a damn.

 

[Henry D]

There are a couple of photos showing the trill F# tone hole removed and patched.

Clumsy and barbaric. I was simply curious as to how the alt Eb tone hole had been done. I'm sure it's just the angles of the pictures but there hasn't been any sign of work there.

I, as stated several times, still believe that it's the same body with a lot of half done work on it and believe both that this thread is a public service and that ConnHunter got taken to the cleaners in a really repugnant manner.

As an addendum; Yeah- it would make a difference to me if it wasn't the same body. I'd still find Lance to be someone who has gone way, way, way past the line but I'd also be more than a little offended by the OP's lack of care in posting the facts of the matter were that to be the case. And, while the table mod on the other horn cited here was surely also incredibly shoddy as business conduct I sort of agree that the three pads involved should have been replaced in any case as a given, given the work done on the mechanism.

 

[patrik roseen]

Burning a pad is usually a mistake done when the key is already installed on the horn and a post close to the pad needs to be removed/adjusted. If there is no protection for the pad the flame will hit without any doubt.
He said he had it on his own sax and then removed it for sending it to you (Jazz Is All). Still a bad procedure by someone claiming to be a horn technician.

I think the reason people ask about Conn-Hunter's sax being the same returned as being sent is not because we question Conn-Hunter, but rather what type of bad business was really performed. In any case this looks really bad.

 

[EricM]

More detailed pics will be coming. I have to make time for work, family and music on the week ends. It does not leave me with much free time. My son has a state of the art digital camera which I will borrow this week end. I am not up to date with todays gadgets. I'm still living in the 80's.

 

[Steve Stockham]

Gentlemen,
This situation has gone on long enough! Sadly, CONN-hunter was (apparently) taken in by an unscrupulous person! His options, as stated before, are limited. A criminal trial would do him no good and (in all probability) LO Burton would get off scott free! What is needed in this situation is a civil suit and not in small claims court!!! You sue this sc*mbag for actual damages and then you nail his *ss with punitive damages!! At the very least you can get his business filing for bankruptcy (which, when you think of it, is probably what he would do in order to not have to pay anything....) and who knows? Maybe you'll even get enough money back so you can replace your sax!