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Destroyed my sax! Lance O.Burton or MartinMods also Solutionremarketing (eBay ID)

62931 Views 162 Replies 56 Participants Last post by  SAXISMYAXE, 
CONN-hunter
2
hello everyone.

It's time to make a report of my CONN New Wonder's Saga.
I sent my beloved horn to:

Lance O. Burton or MartinMods or Solutionremarketing (Ebay ID)
Address:
6219 170th Pl SW
Lynnwood, WA 98037
(425) 743-1192

(putting his address here is legitimate since he is dealing with instruments from many people. Every dealer shows his address openly)

I sent him my wonderful horn (see pics) which was overhauled here in Germany and got some modifications for better play comfort. I had some difficulties with the LH pinky table and was about to sell this great horn for good money. I already had a deal with CE Winds to buy a Professional DSV (Dark super Vintage) in a dark lacquer. As I heard from the mods Lance O. Burton was doing and saw that some SOTW members have sent him their horns I got tempted to do the same. The idea of getting my great sounding collectors horn better playable make me enthusiastic.
I also saw martinMods on eBay (buyers be aware) with the ID SOLUTIONREMARKETING offering the mods. I contacted him through eBay and he offered me a deal "outside" of eBay platform (my bad! never do that. I lost the eBay buyers protection). A complete package for 400U$. I got confident in him. He spoke some German, was kind in communication, had already some SOTW colleagues as customers... this all brought me to cancel the deal on my CONN (sale was fix) and also the purchase of the CE Winds DSV although Brian and Mark invested time on the deal and I think the order from Taiwan was also fix.

After I sent my sax in August 2009 I saw only 1 picture of the sax. At that time the lacquer was still there. A nice old lacquer.
This horn had a history.
I bought it from Carl Gordon from New York. He owned it for decades. In the WW2 Carl was a 12 years old boy and bought this horn from his Clarinet teacher Gerardo Iasilli (he was a NY Maestro and composer of some Sax books, do a research) and started learning sax. During the war Carl played this sax in the bars since the Jazz players, adult men were all in the front fighting. Carl (who moved to Florida after selling me the sax in 2004) attached some rollers in the sax case and used to ride the bike towing the sax that way. What an idea! nevertheless the sax NEVER got damaged and endured the decades on the stand in his fancy maisonette Apartment in New York until I bought it from him for 1,100U$.
Here in Germany this very same sax crossed the country two times, two shippings to 2 different technicians. Overhauling, mods ...again, not a single scratch happened.

Than the last time (August 2009) I sent it in a huge package back to its origin... the glorious "Sax-Land" USA. I shipped it to Lance O. Burton in Florida and the sax arrived there again intact.
But after 3 months Lance Burton moved to Seattle and sent a picture of his small car packaged with instruments on the top. At that point I realized my sax was in real danger.

The sax lost parts, was stripped of its historical lacquer. I don't care if it was double or triple lacquer, if Lance "butcher" Burton liked it or not, it was MY sax and I loved that lacquer.

Now after years of struggling to get back the instrument he sent it back. Stripped, the new Pisoni pads disappeared, cups corroded, cannibalized. Parts have been taken for other horns. The F#s hole removed and not replaced what suggests this part is now in a Bari which was been restored by him.

The technician who examined the sax said it is not repairable, possible but too costly. It would be better to buy a new one, would be cheaper than making of these "mortal rests" a playing tenor sax again.

I wish to make a statement here...

"What Lance O. Burton did is not only a crime against me, it is a crime against the spirit among musicians. The spirit of colleagueship. Musicians shouldn't cheat anybody but specially their fellows not.
This man did a crime against a US Heritage of the sax industry transforming a "state of the art" USA made sax in a "state of misery" art of butchery."

This man doesn't have any respect for himself and for nobody else. Getting money in advance to destroy private proprietary.

Be aware. I don't wish you to experience the same nightmare.

now, that my sax is dead I will weep and I will overcome but Lance O. Burton, or MartinMods or SolutionRemarketing (eBay ID) is for me a "Sax Murder" and guilty of this butchery.

To my colleagues who still have their horns after years under his custody, I wish good luck. The chance of getting the instruments back in a good shape are currently low.

here the first pics to compare the shape before and after the "expertise work" of Mr. Lance "Butcher" Burton...

here the sax still by me in Germany, prior to shipping to Mr. "Solutionremarketing"


barely believable but it is the same sax after a waiting time of almost 3 years.
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H
It's easy to see why the repair tech you took it to advised you to write it off.

There were a LOT of changes made/ work partly done.

There appears to be no trace of the forked Eb tonehole removal on the lower stack- odd, since the chromatic F# tonehole patch was so slipshodly done. This bit (forked Eb hole patch) would then be really skilled workmanship. The lower stack itself would have to have been redone since the touch for the E is different (rides on its own arm) on models with the forked Eb. Less posts as well.


The whole pinky cluster set up ( all associated rods and mechanism for G#/C#/B/Bb) is, of course, MIA. No surprise, since that would be part and parcel of reworking the cluster.

It appears that Martin Mods simply bit off more than he could chew. A d**&*d shame he chose someone elses horn to chew on.
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kingsax
There was a right old ding dong on here about a year or so ago, now i cant be shure but i think it was Enviroguy who sent a Conn bari to martinmods to have similar work to yours, looks like he's used bits of your sax for Enviroguy's and ended up getting in to deep and ruining both sax's, unbelievable.

Something else i find unbelievable is certain members questioning the validity of what you are saying by suggesting the pictures are of a different sax, pm saxismyaxe who i'm shure will fill you in on the "goings on"
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CONN-hunter
2
maybe one of his last eMails to Eric can bring some light in this dark shadow of shame...

Eric,

Pictured is the new RH stack. The sense of patching the outdated Aux Eb hole was to eliminate all the keywork mess that came with it. I opted for

a complete, slightly more modern key set, after chopping the originals and misplacing a couple of keys. This does require relocating some posts. I had also begun matching the upper stack to the lower, as there is "clunk" there as well. I emplore you to let me finish adapting the new set. Your guy can take over once they are done - two days. I doubt that any tech will care to finish what I started, and returning to original is many times the work that is left to do.

Lance.
Click to expand...
the RH stack the horn had as I sent it... costed me 160 U$ just to adapt on the original mechanic...


and the other stack he grabbed from another horn to put on mine (he allegedly lost my parts) . I hope, nobody is gonna miss these parts. They didn't belong to my horn and I even don't like them.
Again here he promised to build by scratch similar ones. Lied again.


this picture above was taken by Lance himself. The shape of the brass (fresh polished) indicates that it has been a while ago.

By the way...

I didn't send the sax to Lance "Butcher" Burton for dramatic change on Key layout. The main work were the LH pinky table and the neck tenon, even with some suffer to the lacquer but not stripping the whole sax.
the aux Eb hole should stay there as the F#s hole too. But this guy is sick and use to take as his what is not his.
Once he has your horn he use to put you under emotional pressure to agree with him or you never see the horn again. I didn't play his game, at least no for a too long time.

A British musician, also a SOTW member here told me that Lance used to bring almost everybody in anguish (as he lived and played in Britain), taking advantage of his muscles (physical intimidation). But he didn't do this with strong people

well, this sounds for me as a discription of a coward.
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AmandasDad
kingsax said:
Something else i find unbelievable is certain members questioning the validity of what you are saying by suggesting the pictures are of a different sax, pm saxismyaxe who i'm shure will fill you in on the "goings on"
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I got that impression as much as pointing out dis-similarities(?) between the two pictures.
It seems as though parts were commandeered from CONN-hunters horn to use on other horns (or kept to try to reproduce?), then replaced with inferior parts.

This guy seemed to have done similar tactics with others.
If this all true (and I do not doubt that it is) I find it hard to believe nobody's take him to court.
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saxphil
He may have sold your horn and is showing you pics of some other crapper.
Sorry for your nightmare, horrible that it happens to anyone.

Thieves are cunning.
I couldn't even begin to fathom what happened, or the thinking of a thief, if that is what is going on here.
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H
AmandasDad said:
I'm not sure I got that impression as much as pointing out dis-similarities(?) between the two pictures.
It seems as though parts were commandeered from CONN-hunters horn to use on other horns (or kept to try to reproduce?), then replaced with inferior parts.

This guy seemed to have done similar tactics with others.
If this all true (and I do not doubt that it is) I find it hard to believe nobody's take him to court.
Click to expand...
Seriously- it just beggars belief. The serial numbers match- surely its the same body but ay carumba... double, no triple ay carumba; old Lance must have done an unbelievable amount of screwing around to get to where the horn is now at- much of it hard to fathom.

That current location, as I see it, is a very slim step above "scrap metal".
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paulwl
This guy sounds like a real f*¢%ing meathead. Obviously had such a high opinion of himself that he could do no wrong, and never considered that he might ruin his reputation. Hell, maybe he thought he'd always be able to threaten his customers to get his way.

Goes to show you that a good craftsperson is not necessarily a good businessperson or even a good person.
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1
Self-deleted. There really is nothing add beyond what Gilson states.
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H
The MartinMods view of the world...

http://www.saxophoneoasis.com/gilsonresponse.html

This, taken with the rest of his site, is awfully hard to swallow even in part- but still FYI.

I'd personally never do business with Lance in any way, shape, or form at this point.
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CONN-hunter
2
he is lying all the way in this statement.

I don't know what happened and how a tech can transform a sax from nice to ugly how he did.

The serial number Eric gave me matches of my horn, also ... it is a work of a butcher and impostor.

before Lance "Butcher" Burton's work...


AFTER Lance "Butcher" Burton's work ... and a wait time of almost 3 years, §&%"&%'#
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AmandasDad
Went to the link, here's what I really don't get......
"This went on until Gilson decided to sell the project to someone else."
followed by..
"The horn/project (this part unknown to him at the time) was bought by Gilson's cousin, known as, "EricM" , on SaxOnTheWeb."
Did you allow Lance to sell your "interest" in the horn & then Eric buying it without telling you he was going to buy it?
Sounds a bit far fetched if you ask me, but......
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abadcliche
This is so sad and awful it almost defies belief.
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H
CONN-hunter said:
AFTER Lance "Butcher" Burton's work ... and a wait time of almost 3 years, §&%"&%'#
Click to expand...
Really well phrased- and a perfect summary.
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kingsax
I remember him joining Pete Thomas's UK based sax forum a year or so ago, just checked the members list and it looks like he's been chucked out!
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S
I guess there's no legal recourse, since you're in Germany and he's in the States? As said many times above, incredibly sad. The lesson we all should take from this is, before sending off your beloved horn, take copious pictures of what you're sending and clearly state and keep a record of the scope of the work you want done. Also check SOTW for posts about the person/company you're dealing with and ask for comments from the members. I know how I feel if I even get little dent in one of my horns. I can imagine the anger and frustration Conn-hunter must feel.
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W
CONN-Hunter, my condolences.

[edit]... I see someone else already explained the flux corrosion.
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EricM
AmandasDad said:
Went to the link, here's what I really don't get......
"This went on until Gilson decided to sell the project to someone else."
followed by..
"The horn/project (this part unknown to him at the time) was bought by Gilson's cousin, known as, "EricM" , on SaxOnTheWeb."
Did you allow Lance to sell your "interest" in the horn & then Eric buying it without telling you he was going to buy it?
Sounds a bit far fetched if you ask me, but......
Click to expand...
Time to chime in. Gilson, who is my relative needed my help to recover his horn. My cousin and his wife were busy doing the Lord's work in Africa. He could not do much to recover his horn from the mission fields in Uganda. I contacted Lance right away and he told me that the horn was not finished and needed more time. A year and half later along with a ton of excuses, I told Lance that I would just drive up to Washington state from my home in California to pick up the horn as is. That is when Lance finally decided to send the horn to me. It arrived wrapped in plastic trash bags. The peanuts in the box was all that kept the horn from banging around in the box. We are just getting started with what to do about Lance.

EricM
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dubrosa22
So sad :(
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Carl H.
BM has a new rope, if you need one.
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N
wow! I couldn't imagine someone being that crooked, but hey look around it seems to be the way a lot of people live, reminds me of someone here in New Orleans. Good luck and I hope you can find yourself another chu....
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