[BigBen23]

Do you like having music labelled or are you like me and believe we should focus less on genres and more on the story being told.

(ANY View is Welcomed on the Subject)

 

[swperry1]

Genres are great if you own a record store and need a filing system.

 

[BigBen23]

People ask me all the time "Do you play a lot of Jazz?" and I answer them all the same sort of lol Technically yes but I'm playing a lot of mixtures as well so what is it really because it isn't really Jazz.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Do you like having music labelled or are you like me and believe we should focus less on genres and more on the story being told.

Well I would say that most or a lot of the music I create defies genres, but I don't think of it as telling a story. To me music is abstract and doesn't really tell a story unless there is a specific story telling lyric. If I was to say that my instrumental music tells a story I would feel I am being a bit pretentious or even pseudo intellectual - it is just music to me.

Can expand on what you mean by "telling a story?"

 

[BigBen23]

Good Question like anything most songs or musical pieces instrumental or lyrical seems to tell a story to a certain extent. Whether the creator meant for that to be the case is another thing entirely.

 

[LostConn]

Genres are great if you own a record store and need a filing system.

Years ago, I used to shop for music in the Harvard Coop record store in Harvard Square. At the time, New Age music was a relatively new genre. The store created a new section for the New Age recordings, with this handwritten category divider: "SCHLOCK."

 

[Reet McVouty]

Yeah, genres are necessary. Today I was setting up wireless preset stations on a new receiver I bought. All of them set to jazz stations. I don't listen to pop, rock, or country. Classical I like but my repertoire is very limited. Now, jazz does have it's own sub categories of which I pretty much listen to all of them, with a-vant-garde being the exception. But, yeah, for some of us genres are necessary.

 

[chilehed]

Do you like having music labelled or are you like me and believe we should focus less on genres and more on the story being told.

(ANY View is Welcomed on the Subject)

Questions like this sound like gobbledygook to me. Are you saying that you don't like words? If so, how can you talk at all? That's what humans do - we categorize things and give names to the categories so we can communicate. "Minor third", "tritone substitution", "right triangle", "breakfast food"... all of these are labels. Every word you use is a label for something.

Why should anyone have a problem with applying a perfectly normal activity to art forms? How do you propose to describe and contrast the works of M&M and Miles Davis without using labels?

 

[Roundmidnite]

I listen to Sirius XM and it would be pretty frustrating to have all the different music mixed up- would only a few jazz tunes. Better to just listen to channel 67 Real Jazz

 

[PorkpieHat]

I have discerning tastes in music so genres, style classification, helps me hone in on what I like.

 

[AddictedToSax]

I remember when my daughter was about 10 and we were in some place with a garden and I was naming off all the different plants. She asked me, "Why do you know all the names of the plants?" I had to stop and think about it for a second then I told her I learned the names so I could talk about them intelligently. If I didn't know the names how would anyone know which plant I was talking about.

I think having genres for music is like having botanical names for plants. It's a way of categorizing things so we can talk about them intelligently. All songs aren't the same but some songs share characteristics with other songs. Some musical arrangements are similar to other ones. Human brains are naturally "designed" or adapted to put things into orderly categories. It's just a natural human thing to do.

I like some pop music. I don't much care for country. I like Latin jazz and some of the old swing. Can't help but tap my foot when I hear traditional jazz or New Orleans jazz or Dixieland or whatever they're calling it this week. I like some bebop. I like blues and some R & B. I can't stand experimental jazz and can't listen to much modal jazz without getting bored. And don't even get me stared on hip hop or rap; I'm old and as white as your mama's new sheets. Now how in the heck could I describe what I just said without using those genre names? Think about it.

 

[BigBen23]

A lot of good Questions and I think a general category is helpful but lets say you create a record and while Sax is the lead for most of the record you've created something new in your creative work with millions of influences. In your mind you've just created something that isn't necessarily jazz but has jazz, rock n roll, R & B, Latin, Blues, and each song is while can be viewed as a unique entity come together to create a story to some degree. Then the "overlords decide this is Jazz fusion, Smooth Jazz, Blues , Gospel (the gospel label is incredibly stupid), etc. I believe the artist should decide the general genre but a specific sub genre is unimportant.

 

[BigBen23]

I don't like listening to the radio. I prefer to listen to the music I have bought and some of the best stuff I listen to is new or upcoming artists who push the boundaries.

 

[10mfan]

Well, older music and older performers in all different genres, pushed the boundaries also for where it was at.

A few for example.... Chuck Berry took music to a new place, and the Beatles took it to a new place.
Louis Armstrong took music to a new place and Monk took it to a new place.

They pushed the boundaries. So many examples of this, in all different genres, that it’s endless.


I just listened to Eminem‘s new album the other day in it’s entirety, and it’s been hard for me to put down. It’s really superb. Pushing the boundaries.

 

[JayeLID]

Well I would say that most or a lot of the music I create defies genres, but I don't think of it as telling a story. To me music is abstract and doesn't really tell a story unless there is a specific story telling lyric. If I was to say that my instrumental music tells a story I would feel I am being a bit pretentious or even pseudo intellectual - it is just music to me.

Can expand on what you mean by "telling a story?"

Good Question like anything most songs or musical pieces instrumental or lyrical seems to tell a story to a certain extent. Whether the creator meant for that to be the case is another thing entirely.

A sax friend (lurking member here) and I have had this discussion many times. I (we) feel, that instrumental music doesn't usually really 'tell a story'. It may be evocative (at its best).....but it does not tell a story as in providing a narrative really.
Lyrics do that.

I think this is why instrumental music is, generally speaking and in the popular sense, harder for most people to grasp onto than music with lyrics. Most folks are NOT musicians, and a large number do NOT have the propensity towards musicality, arguably (not saying they cannot acquire it, just saying they 'naturally', 'intrinsically' might not possess it - or if they do, modern society is such that it is not considered valuable or 'useful', as the arts are often dismissed in today's world). So as a stand-alone form, instrumental music possesses less 'commonality' for the general listener than lyrics music does (let's set aside soundtrack instrumental music for time being, because again in this instance there is an additional (visual and often to a degree, narrative) association being delivered with the music which a listener may well refer back to in their memory when listening to said soundtrack afterward, sans the visuals).

OK, so, not to digress.....I hear ya', OP. Many times, given a band I have been in, when asked the (innocent) question whether it be by a venue owner, friend, or stranger: "what kind of music does your band play"...my reply usually begins with a very long "ummmmmmmmmmmmm.......", simply because the material, and more so how we have chosen to arrange and present it, doesn't fit a tidy label.

This may or may not be important as an artist...and it may or may not be important in how we choose to market ourselves:

Then the "overlords decide this is Jazz fusion, Smooth Jazz, Blues , Gospel (the gospel label is incredibly stupid), etc. I believe the artist should decide the general genre but a specific sub genre is unimportant.

Fair enough and indeed this may cause some frustration in the artist, but I think we have to temper that with the fact that, in order to market one's wares, some of this will be necessary. Now, if you are a 'pure creator' with no real desire to actually get gigs or market yourself and maybe even sell your tunes online....then the 'compromise' of being 'defined' becomes unnecessary.

Digression #2.....I can say from experience, knowing what my 30-year old daughter likes, her playlists, as well as those of her friends and even those of those who are younger.....are ...by the standards of codgers over 50 such as myself...incredibly eclectic...sometimes to the point where I feel they are chaotic or schizophrenic, even.

This even occurs within particular single songs by recording or performing artists...which at its best can be extremely interesting, and at its worst be incredibly manipulative and derivative to the degree of abuse for the sake/intent of pulling heartstrings or creating a 'false familiarity'....

Yet to her generation(s), there is a continuous thread in there somewhere. I think that is kinda cool, actually...although I myself might not be able to find what that thread may be.

And I think, in large part this is probably due to technology delivering more choices and accessibility to the listener..as opposed to, say, 30 years ago when your access was basically:

Listen to the Radio
Buy Records at the store
Go to live shows

The access of all being quite controlled by the music/entertainment industry, when you think about it.

All of which is to say "Genre Bending"...today...seems to be becoming more of a norm than a rarity.

 

[bokagee]

Here's a Digression for ya. It's Jazz, in my opinion, named Digression for the lack of much of a chord progression.

View attachment Digression - Parts.pdf

 

[whaler]

I play different styles. Cover bands, a duo with a singer/pianist who does some country and my jazz groups.
My playing changes with the music but of course ‘me’ always comes out.

 

[BigBen23]

Thank you so much for your input I'm going to think about this for a few days and get back to this thread.

 

[Budget Explosion]

Great topic!

I have an instrumental band and I go out and see instrumental bands in NYC all the time (usually once a week - last seen was Lazy Boy a great twangy trio, tonight it's Percy Jones from Brand X who is doing a cool instrumental King Crimonson-esque thing includes soprano sax.) In my opinion: having a band that plays instrumental music in an established genre has been easier to get bookings and get folks to check you out (whether you play ska or afrobeat or hard bop or surf) but it may be creatively limiting - more like entertainment music than artistic music (even if you play original songs.)

It's not what I aspire to (sorry for sounding pretentious.) I want to try and merge some of my influences and try to combine them in a way that at least a bit different/fresh/new. I also like playing songs influenced by some disparate sources all in one set - like a pastiche (the second definition in the dictionary.) Not being able to put an easy label on my band, makes it harder to promote. This frustrates my bandmates - they just tell people they play in a soul jazz band. Ha!

 

[BigBen23]

Here's a Digression for ya. It's Jazz, in my opinion, named Digression for the lack of much of a chord progression.

View attachment 252074

I laughed way to hard at this. LOL