[WildRedHed]

Hi, I wonder if anyone can tell me more about my sax please? I`ve searched the web, and kept coming back to this site, but can`t find another just like it.
I bought it in a small music shop in Edinburgh, c 1986. It had been found in an attic when someone died, and their relis sold it to the shop who overhauled it.

It`s silver plated and on the horn the engraving says:

Dearman Master Model
Sole Distributors
John E Dallas & Sons Ltd
6 - 10 Betterton St. London

on the side is stamped:

9499 MADE IN FRANCE

I`m posting some pics. As you can see from the octave key, it`s been well used in the past.
Thanks in advance

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[WildRedHed]

More pics.

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[griff136]

Hi WildRedHead, Dearman had stencils made from various companies including B&S and Kohlert. Yours looks like it could be a Pierret stencil. See here to compare your sax to the pictures on this site http://www.saxpics.com/?v=gal&c=3480
looks like it could be a model 6.

 

[milandro]

In another thread we concluded it was a Pierret stencil.

you can see here a almost identical tenor

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...ne-no-serial-number-or-country-of-manufacture

 

[WildRedHed]

Thank you so much for your input.
Milandro: you are right, it`s almost identical to the tenor.

I`m a novice with very little knowledge of the different makes.
My teacher in Edinburgh advised me to buy this instrument as I like 40`s style sax, and it certainly has a beautiful tone.

Now to try and value it (for insurance) and find a replacement case as the current one is falling to pieces.
Thanks again!

Julie

 

[milandro]

really, the value of these things is not set in stone!

There is not a market value because there is simply too little a market to speak of.

So it is probably worth, for insurance purposes, what you paid and what you invested in fixing it.

If I would buy something like this in my neck of the woods, I would probably pay a very maximum of 350-400€ in proper working state for a private seller and perhaps as much as 700€ from a shop. Not playing and coming from a private seller maybe as little as 150€ or even less.

An overhaul would cost (in the Netherlands) a minimum of 300€ ( by a reputable technician with a real business) to a maximum of 500€.

 

[bruce bailey]

Most cases for a left side bell key alto should work. I would go with a Protec contoured.

 

[WildRedHed]

Milandro: the overhaul was complete when I bought it, and it`s really quite invaluable to me. I would love to know more of it`s history - sometimes it seems to play so well it can`t be me!
Bruce: thanks for directing me to Protec. I`ll keep the original case for the future in case I ever sell it. I actually threw away the original mouthpiece it was so dirty :~ Regretting that now.

Having looked at the Pierret pics I now have another question:
How can I tell if mine is silver plated or nickel plated? would silver plating have some sort of silver mark on it?

 

[milandro]

no silver plating would have no marks (even solid silver at times has no marks on musical instruments!). Nickel plating feels cold and slippery and it is very hard being rather impervious to scratching it doesn’t tarnish but might get opaque . Silver plating tarnishes and fells less slippery and somewhat warm to the touch it scratcher rather more easily.

on the pictures it looks a bit more silver plate than nickel plate. No plate would make any difference in terms of value (and I believe of sound too).

As for insurance value if this horn was overhauled and was purchased from a shop I wouldn’t imagine that it could be worth more than €700. In any case, you insurance, should it ever come to this, would probably ask you to produce the documents showing the buying price.

 

[WildRedHed]

Thanks Milandro, I`m inclined to agree about the plating. Though my instrument doesn`t have any tarnishing, it is warm to the touch and has slight flaking in parts, notably under the octave key, with pitting under the thumb rest, possibly from nicotine?

Now with full access to the site and pix, trawling through the archives I`ve found at least 2 Master Model Dearmans almost identical to mine.

 

[milandro]

Pitting and flaking occurs naturally in all sorts of plating.

If In areas where contact is frequent is a common thing due to a combination of chemicals secreted by the skin, the mechanical action or possibly some corrosion due to acid bleeding from solder flux under some parts which comes free after some time.

 

[WildRedHed]

Still intrigued by my sax and it`s history, today I searched the web for "John E Dallas" instead of "Dearman", and found this web page:
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/John_E._Dallas_and_Sons

As the address on my sax is "6 - 10 Betterton St. London", from this information I can make an assumption that my sax was made between 1926 and 1937. Really exciting
Just wish someone would pay me to do research - in anything - I love it!

 

[milandro]

your saxophone was certainly not made in the ’20 or even the first years of the ’30.

 

[WildRedHed]

Thank you. That narrows it right down.

 

[JayeLID]

Yes...that is a really NICE old Pierret, but definitely a '40's or early '50's horn just based upon the detailing.

If you had any inclination, the plating wear can be made less noticeable, and the pitting a bit less noticeable, if you had the body chem cleaned and then buffed/polished...although quite honestly as Milandro says, this is common stuff on an old plated horn & it may not be worth the expense to do so since the horn looks pretty clean. But if it isn't (i.e. you look down the bell and see the inside is dirty), a good tech bath may be the ticket.

Enjoy it. This was a GOOD find !

 

[WildRedHed]

Thank you! According to the gracesguide webpage on John E Dallas, the company moved from 6 - 10 Betterton Street, London in 1937. This is the address on the bell of my horn. Can I assume it was made sometime before 1937, but as Milandro says, not the early 30`s?

I`m finding this so interesting that I`m trying to create a database of the Dearman saxophones gleaned from posts on this website and others, linking the saxophones with the different periods in the history of John E Dallas, and hopefully serial numbers and the original manufacturers. I notice that sometimes people are reluctant to show the serial number in a post, instead putting something like 9XXX9. Is there a reason for this?

Quite happy with the pitting / flaking of the plating on my horn - I like it`s lived-in feeling. Just wish I knew who had owned it before me!

 

[milandro]

Based on the design of your horn, if this were made before 1937 it would have been WAY ahed of its time and there are no indication that it was. I don’t have an explanation but a mistaken moving record seems to be a possibility.

The reason why people quote just some of the serial number id that someone could say that the instrument was actually theirs even though it wasn’t.

But it would be difficult to really prove it was theirs, anyway

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?164464-6789XX-Serial-Numbers-Why-Do-We-Hide-Them

 

[WildRedHed]

OK thanks. More digging to do then