[alecMerkel]

I'm just curious as to how different people deal with failure and staying motivated while doing all things musical including gig and so fourth.

The basics while learning is take it slow and continue practicing. But how do you deal with a bad gig? Bad crowd? ect... Any experiences you are willing to share are welcome. As I am dealing with a bit of that myself right now.

Thanks

 

[Alley Cat]

As I am dealing with a bit of that myself right now.

Talking about it can be very therapeutic. What actually happened ?

 

[saxnbax]

There are plenty of stories from no less than greats like Bird and Miles about how they got their @## kicked on the bandstand on their way up. Music makes you ask some interesting questions of yourself such as "Why am I doing this?", "What do I hope or expect to get out of it?", "When will I be satisfied?" and many many more. I know you've heard the Socrates quote "The unexamined life is not worth living". Well, I've found that playing the sax will force you to examine your life in a big way. There is a very cool book by Philip Toshio Sudo called "Zen Guitar". A quick and enjoyable read and equally applicable to any instrument or discipline. Good luck with the journey!

 

[Swampcabbage]

Everyone has bad days. In fact, sometimes those bad days motivate me more than the good days (I am often fueled by anger and resentment; especially guided toward myself).

I think of it this way; I have 3 "spiritual" motivators to keep working harder.

1. For my own growth and desire to improve as a musician.
2. For the welfare on my family and friends who love and support me - family needs the money from the gigs - friends need me to keep playing well on the gigs so we can keep working, etc...
3. If the first 2 are not enough - to spite any MF's who either thought less of me or thought I could not conjure the discipline to keep working through adversity.

People scoffed at Trane and Ornette. People out there couldn't stand Clarence Clemons. Others think Cannonball is to garralous or Miles was to introverted. There is always an audience that would rather not hear you. And a band that would rather play with someone else.

But, if you keep working. You will find the right group to work with and the right audience to play for. Good luck and hit the shed.

 

[evan1]

In regards to the OP how i stay motivated these days, is consistently book gigs. In the absence of gigs, paid gigs, I wouldnt practice and I could justify that in my tiny little brain. Sounding great in your own room, to yourself, for yourself, is a lonely existence ! paid Gigs keep me motivated and practicing simple as that.

 

[dogster]

I had a bad night on Monday I thought I sucked my girl told me I was awful . They people there were complementing me on my alto flute and sax playing and I just said thank you . The band I played with wants me this thursday and friday . So I guess I am more critical than I need to be ? I am glad I didn't say anything like I am sorry i was so bad !

 

[paulwl]

In regards to the OP how i stay motivated these days, is consistently book gigs. In the absence of gigs, paid gigs, I wouldnt practice and I could justify that in my tiny little brain. Sounding great in your own room, to yourself, for yourself, is a lonely existence ! paid Gigs keep me motivated and practicing simple as that.

Not an option for very many of us in North America, I'm afraid, where any kind of live music is becoming old hat. But I know where you're coming from.

If the first 2 are not enough - to spite any MF's who either thought less of me or thought I could not conjure the discipline to keep working through adversity.

This is a really bitter pill for some of us. We need to be tough enough on ourselves to say, "when someone p!sses us off this much, they must be right." And then swallow enough of our pride to let them live rent-free in our heads while we practice. AND - on top of all this! - to be able to kick them out of our heads once the practice is done for the day, and repeat as necessary.

True motivation is being able to push your own buttons and pull your own strings like a virtuoso - because the first instrument you play is always you. If you're not "playing" yourself, you're not going to play well.

It'd be great if everything we have to do inspired us, or fascinated us, or felt like a puzzle we just had to solve. But music isn't like that. Sometimes we really do have to fight ourselves. On certain fundamentals, maybe every day until it becomes a habit.

 

[SaxPunter]

I had a bad night on Monday I thought I sucked my girl told me I was awful . They people there were complementing me on my alto flute and sax playing and I just said thank you . The band I played with wants me this thursday and friday . So I guess I am more critical than I need to be ? I am glad I didn't say anything like I am sorry i was so bad !

Dont ever apologise, sometimes you are ahead, sometimes you are behind. In the end the race is only with yourself.

 

[evan1]

Not an option for very many of us in North America, I'm afraid, where any kind of live music is becoming old hat. But I know where you're coming from.

Hey Paul - I am not talking about a gazillion gigs. I do ok. I have 4 in December and 6 In January thus far and between 4 and 6 a month is usually where i am, so i am not a professional musician.

 

[Mikeysaxcat]

Well it is very difficult to play perfect at every gig. I mean I teach full time and also play full time three steady gigs a week and what ever else pops up. I am constantly trying to stay in shape and play better sometimes I'll come home from a gig thinking I played terrible because that solo I played in this tune was weak, out of key, etc. Even more I get picky about just one high g not popping out the way I want. Sometimes we are very critical with the technical side of playing and we tend to listen to everyone's opinion. Ok constructive criticism is healthy but, work on all aspects of your playing, technique, health and your emotional feelings towards music in general. Keep at it all hard work pays off eventually and you will enjoy playing the horn more. A very good book about these topics is Zen in the art of archery. I read it whenever I go through these rough patches. Best wishes.

sent from Mikey's Super Inspire 4G

 

[bandmommy]

First you throw yourself a pity party. Then you go over everything in your head that you 'think' you failed at.
Take a couple of days practicing those 'failures'. After that practice your 'successes'.
When you play another gig say "F it", and just have fun.

We all have bad days. The hard part is not letting it get to you. Just have fun playing and dare to suck from time to time.

 

[JL]

It goes with the territory. Anything that takes skill, endurance, and that is worthwhile will extract the price of periodic 'failure.' Those who can't deal with it, soon quit and do something less challenging, until maybe they are doing nothing at all. Just stick with it, keep gigging, and keep trying to improve. Every time I screw something up, I at least promise myself not to make that mistake again, and it inspires me to practice whatever it was I messed up until I can't play it wrong. Eventually you get your share of good nights, fun gigs, great audience, etc. But there will always be the off nights, whether it's your own playing errors or a poor audience, or crappy venue, whatever. Just keep going and live for the good ones.

One thing that is a sort of two-edged sword is that every performance is a brand new opportunity. It's a new opportunity to play great or to play poorly. Doesn't matter how great or poor you were the last time out. Each new gig is a fresh situation. I think it helps to see it this way, not least of all because that's the reality. Just carry on and keep working to get better.

And yeah saxpunter, you took the words out of my mouth. I couldn't agree more with what you said: "Dont ever apologise, sometimes you are ahead, sometimes you are behind. In the end the race is only with yourself."

I guess looking at the title of this thread, I would say that for a real musician who wants to get better, failure is as much a motivating factor as success. In other words, the road to success is paved with ****-ups.

 

[buddy lee]

My teacher tells me the story about the time he was kicked off of stage by ELVIN JONES for crap's sake. He managed to re-group and play in Jaco's band not long afterward. Keep on keepin' on.

 

[marton]

In the long term, failure's barely a blip on the radar.

 

[evan1]

Alexander’s failures towered over our successes . . . Ptolemy said this in 331 BCE. So point is failures need to be put in context. And as he said some men’s failures tower over other men’s successes . . . .

 

[alecMerkel]

Thank you guys for the kind words. Reading some of these gave me goosebumps. Again thank you very much.

It's almost new year and with a new year comes a outlook. I really needed to read this.

 

[hgiles]

Dont think about 'failure' in the tradional sense -- think about it as an opportunity to excel. Usually these opportunities have quick and easy solutions once you parse out the elephant in the room.

 

[DanPerezSax]

Bad practice: There is no failure in practice. Practice is like an experiment. You do it in order to learn. If you don't get the expected result, you need to change something: either your goal for the day needs to be more realistic or you need to try a different method to reach it. The only failure is in not practicing.

Bad gig: If you're hired for a gig and you realize you're in over your head, it's a problem. Partly your fault for taking a gig you couldn't cut, and mainly the leader's fault for hiring you for a gig you couldn't cut. Talk to the other guys about your limitations ASAP and hope they'll be flexible and reasonable enough to help you cover them up. Then go back to the shed for a year or two before trying that kind of gig again. Hopefully by that time, the guys will have forgotten your name or will hear you playing somewhere else where your chops can sell you. I wouldn't bet on being called back, though, unless you've really improved and were a pleasure to work with despite the chops issue.

Bad crowd: ask for requests. Know them and play them. If you need to keep people dancing, you have to play what they like. If you don't know what they like, ask. Even NO response can speak volumes. For example, a terrible gig I did in AC with a great band: the band was a Prince tribute band and we'd played the room a few times before with great success. We were the 12-3AM band that night, and we followed a Jersey rock cover band (Springsteen, Bon Jovi, etc.). The crowd was ALL over the band before us. Apparently nobody billed us as a tribute because we played some funky Prince tunes, Musicology or something, and the dance floor is EMPTY. The singer goes, "Let me ask you something: who here wants to hear some PRINCE?" No response whatsoever. Then he says it again, louder (smh). No answer. "How bout some James Brown?" Nada. So then he lets the drummer solo for a minute and the MD hashes out a whole party set. Livin On A Prayer, Long Train Running, etc. So much for the Prince tribute! LOL But the people got back on the floor...

 

[mi000ke]

I'm a fairly analytical person, and I find that having "hard data" helps me to stay more objective about my failures and gives me a pathway for improvement - which also helps to take my mind a bit off the failures and redirects my emotional energy toward fixing the problem. I record every gig and most band practices so that I can 1) confirm my impression that I did indeed suck, and 2) be able to analyze specifically why I sucked (for me these days it's overplaying - both in my sound and my solos). One consistent finding is that regardless of how the audience responds, I always find tons of things that sucked about my (and the band's) playing, as we tend to be way more critical about our own playing. For example, I thought I played terribly at a recent gig, but thought our piano player was outstanding. We listed to the recording together and he thought I sounded good and that he was awful. And when he pointed out where his playing was deficient, it really helped me to understand how we hear ourselves so much more critically than we hear others. His playing had a lot of the same issues mine did, but I could not hear them, as I was listening to him in a more holistic mode vs. a critical mode when listening to my own playing. I also find that even when the audience is responding well to our band, when we listen to the recording we think the playing was a disaster. And when the audience doesn't respond well (and we've had many of those) we just keep plugging away, remind ourselves of the good gigs we've had, and use the tape to devise a plan for the next rehearsal. And the great thing about taping everything is that we can be somewhat systematic in working on getting better. We create specific plans about what to work on (both individually and the band as a whole), we work on them, and then we listen to the next recording to see how we did. Oh, and one last thing - when I'm feeling particularly bummed out, I'll go back to one of our really good recordings and play that just to remind myself that it's possible to play well once in a while.