Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 119 Posts

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
32,936 Posts
I know that polishing a tarnished silver plated horn will make it brighter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,207 Posts
All Brands today offer unlacquered models, so I don't understand why strip the lacquer instead of try and compare the same model in raw brass...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
Wow, not taking this question seriously, are we?

Not exactly modern, but I had two Super 20 tenors from the '50s, one with most of it's original lacquer and the other a poor-playing relacq. I had the relacq stripped to bare brass and overhauled and now I can't discern any difference between the two.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
32,936 Posts
Wow, not taking this question seriously, are we?

Not exactly modern, but I had two Super 20 tenors from the '50s, one with most of it's original lacquer and the other a poor-playing relacq. I had the relacq stripped to bare brass and overhauled and now I can't discern any difference between the two.
Yep, an overhaul will do that. If an overhaul fails to improve a poor-playing horn, find a different tech.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
Yep, an overhaul will do that. If an overhaul fails to improve a poor-playing horn, find a different tech.
That wasn't my point. I'm trying to say that I can't tell any difference between 2 horns that are virtually identical except that one is lacquered and one is not.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
32,936 Posts
That wasn't my point. I'm trying to say that I can't tell any difference between 2 horns that are virtually identical except that one is lacquered and one is not.
That may not have been your point, but you cannot distinguish whether the improvement was due to delacquering or overhaul. Your relac would likely have played just as well with only the overhaul.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
The delacquering and overhaul is irrelevant and was only offered as potentially interesting background information.

The POINT is the comparison between 2 nearly identical, good playing horns; one with original lacquer and the other with no lacquer. (Which relates to the topic of the thread, except for the "modern" aspect.) As I said, I can not discern a difference between the two. I never said anything about an "improvement."

Perhaps you should actually read the posts before you rush to comment.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
Joined
·
32,936 Posts
Wow, not taking this question seriously, are we?

Not exactly modern, but I had two Super 20 tenors from the '50s, one with most of it's original lacquer and the other a poor-playing relacq. I had the relacq stripped to bare brass and overhauled and now I can't discern any difference between the two.
The delacquering and overhaul is irrelevant and was only offered as potentially interesting background information.

The POINT is the comparison between 2 nearly identical, good playing horns; one with original lacquer and the other with no lacquer. (Which relates to the topic of the thread, except for the "modern" aspect.) As I said, I can not discern a difference between the two. I never said anything about an "improvement."
You did say that the relaq started as a poor-playing horn. If there was no improvement during the overhaul, then both horns would play equally bad. I agree with you that the lacquer has little effect on the tone - and will add that the relaq could have played equally well. The overhaul swamps any minor effects of differences in finish.

Perhaps you should actually read the posts before you rush to comment.
Tod, I have read your comments - and many others on the topic of lacquer/relacquer/delacquer. I was commenting on your post for the sake of the OP, who hasn’t experienced the previous discussions.

Congrats on having two Super 20 tenors from a great period.
 

·
Distinguished Technician & SOTW Columnist. RIP, Yo
Joined
·
17,204 Posts
Swingbop, the flippant comments here are probably in part because there are already some of the longest threads in this forum dedicated to the topic. The topic has been thoroughly done to death. I don't think any of the serious writers here really want to write all that information and discussion again.

I suggest you take a look at some of those other threads, including the ones on the (non) effect of body material. That issue has actually been studied scientifically.
And there is general consensus in this forum that if you believe a sax will play better if you do this or that to it, you more than likely will "find" that it does - that is, in your mind. Placebo effect. Psychology 101. So take all anecdotes with a grain of salt.
 

·
The most prolific Distinguished SOTW poster, Forum
Joined
·
27,650 Posts
I know that polishing a tarnished silver plated horn will make it brighter.
LOL! Exactly.

I think in some subtle cases it might. However, what's your goal? Whatever your sound-goal, it can probably be accomplished by a change in reeds or mouthpiece, considerably cheaper and not so messy.

And don't forget that whatever sound you might have in your inner head, you will gravitate to, for good or bad. So changing the finish may or might not do one thing but whatever sound you have in your inner ear will probably counterbalance that. And there's the placebo effect which can make you think something's changed when it really didn't.


Now if it's for cosmetic reasons, go for it and enjoy the results.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW member/, Official SOTW Sister
Joined
·
19,204 Posts
I'm taking a natural approach to 'delacquering' my horns.
The lacquer wears away naturally through use.
So far my Indiana is down to about 70% remaining and there has been no discernable change in sound/tone quality.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
14,268 Posts
Gordon is spot-on. The whole subject of re-lacs, no lac, de-lac, etc. has been done to death. It boils down to believers vs. non-believers. I'm in the non-believer camp.

A de-lac process would almost always result in an "overhaul", meaning the horn would be disassembled, de-laquered, then re-assembled with pads re-installed or replaced, etc. That alone upsets the base-line. DAVE
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,458 Posts
I'm taking a natural approach to 'delacquering' my horns.
The lacquer wears away naturally through use.
So far my Indiana is down to about 70% remaining and there has been no discernable change in sound/tone quality.
Really? When I applied a similar process, naturally delacquering a sax through 20 years of practice and performance, I found the tone quality improved markedly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,241 Posts
Really? When I applied a similar process, naturally delacquering a sax through 20 years of practice and performance, I found the tone quality improved markedly.
That was just a matter of the brass molecules' aging and absorbing your playing patterns. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,833 Posts
I think through heavy play, the brass molecules line up after getting vibrated around and rubbed together allowing the horn to really resonate with that sweet singing quality. The lacquer probably keeps the outer surface molecules from properly shifting into alignment. If you think about it, it's really just common sense. Everything else is just more FAKE NEWS science crap........Sad.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Technician.
Joined
·
1,530 Posts
It sure changes some horns and less others, I think it depends on the type of lacquer like epoxy compared to the nitrocellulose. I think it also depends on if its a large bore or a smaller bore.In the end I think changing reeds and the mouthpiece changes things a lot more.I also think that horns that have been relaquered several times seem to suffer...
 
1 - 20 of 119 Posts
Top