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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I don't think we are going to get very far arguing about what different people think about a player. Saxplayer67 is quite entitled to his opinion (as is rogcwilliams), and no amount of playing credentials will change anyone's right to their own opinion.

What is odd to me here is the thread title with the word "review". This is somewhat misleading. If Dave O'Higgins is an official endorser and involved with the Trevor James company, then what we have here is not a review but merely a piece of marketing. I have to agree with Milandro about this.

I recently tried some Signature Custom tenors and I find it impossible to believe that they are the same model that any independent reviewer who is also a good player could say anything quite so favourable about. They were badly set up and were out of tune.

As for "Made In England", I'm believe the law does allow for just the final assembly of a product. They can do the bare minimum to justify that badge unfortunately.

I find this sad as previously I had a high regard for TJ saxophones and would seriously love to see a quality saxophone made in England.
Here is an email i recieved yesterday from the marketing director at TJ's ref the SIgnature Custom.

"Hi Roger - It is pretty well known that our Trevor James classic and Rev. II instruments are made in Taiwan and then have a final finish in the UK. People therefore presume that the Signature Custom has the same route to market! This was always going to be the problem with us coming out with the SC. However the Signature Custom sax, just like our new Recital flutes are new product lines and have completely new manufacturing origins (endorsed by UK Trading Standards Authority) and shouldn't be confused with the Trevor James student lines.

It appears that very few players believe that the instrument is actually made in England. This issue is not going to go away!"

As far as Dave O'Higgins he has one of there sax's because they gave him one to test and try he is not a Paid endorsee therefore his review is totaly non biased and independent.

As far as your remarks Pete quiete frankly thats your opinion and clearly you seem set to belive that all TJ can make is a student instrument, and its my opinion that this is realy reason you have decided that the Signature Custom is not a good sax...I say this because i do not belive you when you say that are out of tune this in my humble opinion is bull. I have played many of these sax's and have heard D O'higgins playing his and i can hear no tuning problems with any of them. Its strange that despite people saying they would liek to see a UK Sax do well they are very quick to shoot it down in flames when someone tries to do just that...that to me is what is very sad.

Maybe it would be better productive to contact TJ's with you concerns and let them address it first (if its needed) before the fireing squad come out.

Just my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I usually keep myself on-the-down-low about everything I read here on the SOTW.......BUT this kind of ****E!!!!!! just pisses me off. I cannot believe this kind of attitude. We're all just working at trying to better our saxophone selves no matter what level we're at.
  • Do you actually know Mr. Higgins personally?
  • Have you just sat down and talked with him?
  • Is this the kind of attitude that you are passing off on your students?

I implore you to really THINK about what you are writing before you do it. There's a fairly good chance that your students might be reading what you are typing.

(breathe deeply, Joel)

OK......off my soap box. Sorry ahead of time, for offending any one.

later

Joel
Good questions Joel and althought i belive they were not directed at me perhaps you would allow me the liberty of answering them also.

Do you actually know Mr. Higgins personally?
Yes i do know Dave O'Higgins and apart from being a great player he is a bloody nice guy.

Have you just sat down and talked with him?
Yea i have many times and again he is a really genuine and pleasant person. and very interesting to talk to.

Is this the kind of attitude that you are passing off on your students?
Well i dont teach simply dont have the time but if i did the answer would be NO i would infact tell them to listen to players such as Dave and learn from them.

Good post Joel glad im not the only one who gets wound up with the way some people think in these forums.
 

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Even if the horn was "Made In England" is that a good thing?
I understand that if it was made in France, Germany, or maybe even Japan, but I didn't know England had any tradition of saxophone manufacturing.
 

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Picky, picky, picky - almost all the way around. This is some of what Tim Price was recently talking about, I think somewhat exasperatedly.

Who give a hoot where it comes from? Furthermore, I loose the logic that, because player X allegedly endorses a sax, his/her review of that sax is invalid. What are they supposed to do? I like a sax, I buy it, because I'm an excellent player with a reputation, the company offers me an endorsement. Now, have I lost my right, more so even my credibility, in offering my candid thoughts about the sax?

rogcwilliams was simply passing some interesting info along. Does he really deserve to be backed into a corner for sharing this?
 

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As far as your remarks Pete quiete frankly thats your opinion and clearly you seem set to belive that all TJ can make is a student instrument,
I did not say that, nor did I give any reason for you to think that I implied that, in fact the opposite I believe. These days I'm not sure I even believe in a dividing line between a professional and a student instrument - so much of it is cosmetic. Of course they can make a professional instrument. I've played one of their horns a few years ago that I would call a professional instrument and I recommended it as such. This was a TJ signature alto - a very good instrument that I would happily have used professionally.
and its my opinion that this is realy reason you have decided that the Signature Custom is not a good sax...I say this because i do not belive you when you say that are out of tune this in my humble opinion is bull.
I'm only reporting what I found with the Signature Classics I tried out. I'm sorry you think I'm not telling the truth about my observations. I'm not making any statements about all of them.
I have played many of these sax's and have heard D O'higgins playing his and i can hear no tuning problems with any of them. Its strange that despite people saying they would liek to see a UK Sax do well they are very quick to shoot it down in flames when someone tries to do just that...that to me is what is very sad.
So it would be if it was true. In my case, I tried the instruments with an open mind, as I have many other saxophones and as I said I'm saying what I found. If they were good I would say so, simple as that.
Maybe it would be better productive to contact TJ's with you concerns and let them address it first (if its needed) before the fireing squad come out.
No need to, if I had bought one and found it to be deficient I would certainly contact them, but I have much better use of my time than to write to every saxophone manufacturer/importer telling them I am concerned about their instruments.

Please believe me I'm talking about instruments I tried out at saxophones.co.uk and compared on that day with many other saxophones. They just happened not to compare very favourably, especially with instruments that were as expensive.

As for the origins, I believe they are assembled in England and I believe they comply with trading standards. According to sax.co.uk they parts are made in Taiwan, maybe they are made somewhere else. What ultimately matters is how good the saxophone is and all I'm doing is saying what I think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I'm only reporting what I found with the Signature Classics I tried out. I'm sorry you think I'm not telling the truth about my observations. I'm not making any statements about all of them.
Are you talking about Horn Classics or Signature Custom ?? they dont make a Signature Classic

The Horn Classic is there student sax and is made in Taiwan the Signature Custom is the Pro sax and built in the UK.
 

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hmmmm... tried to stay out of it, but I have the urge to say a few things

Saxplayer, if that Higgins guy sucks, 95% of SOTW sucks big time. I try to believe I don't suck, although I know I'm not world-class (and an amateur with only 4 years of experience). Higgins blows me away any place, any time. and for all I know, he might be able to do exactly the same with you

rogcwilliams, you're really doing a bit too much effort for not being related somehow to Trevor James. You know Higgins, Higgins knows TJ, ergo...

Pete, are you sure it was the Signature Custom? Apparently, they had a Taiwanese "Signature" (not custom). I can imagine that one having a far lower quality. I've played some Trevor James saxes lately when I was in England, and although they weren't bad at all, they were far away from the description of Higgins. But they were no Signature Customs.

My idea : TJ is doing a lot of effort for the marketing. A bit too much for my taste. Or at least in the wrong way. It makes me suspicious, in the way that you can buy as much sax for less money. But it can merely be a wrong marketing approach, or me being overly suspicious for anything that smells marketing from far away.

This said : if it blows, buy it. But before you buy, blow it.
 

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if that Higgins guy sucks, 95% of SOTW sucks big time.
He doesn't, we don't, and neither do you!:D Cheers, bro!

rory

ps. somebody should email this thread to the marketing guys at Trevor James
 

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ps. somebody should email this thread to the marketing guys at Trevor James
Provocateur! Scoundrel! LOL. Your fingers broken. :D
 

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Pete, are you sure it was the Signature Custom? Apparently, they had a Taiwanese "Signature" (not custom). I can imagine that one having a far lower quality. I've played some Trevor James saxes lately when I was in England, and although they weren't bad at all, they were far away from the description of Higgins. But they were no Signature Customs.
Oh yes. The horns I were trying out were not the Signature (which as I have said elsewhere are fine horns). They were Signature Custom "Made In England".

I did not find the Signature to be lower quality than the Signature Custom.
 

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And can I say one more time, please can we allow each other to have different opinions on the saxophone players they like or dislike.

I'll add one thing though, you don't have to be great player to review a saxophone. You need only be knowledgeable and competent. Great players are often not good reviewers because they can make anything sound great - that's a big part of the reason why companies pay them to endorse or give them free instruments to endorse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
hmmmm... tried to stay out of it, but I have the urge to say a few things

Saxplayer, if that Higgins guy sucks, 95% of SOTW sucks big time. I try to believe I don't suck, although I know I'm not world-class (and an amateur with only 4 years of experience). Higgins blows me away any place, any time. and for all I know, he might be able to do exactly the same with you

rogcwilliams, you're really doing a bit too much effort for not being related somehow to Trevor James. You know Higgins, Higgins knows TJ, ergo...

Pete, are you sure it was the Signature Custom? Apparently, they had a Taiwanese "Signature" (not custom). I can imagine that one having a far lower quality. I've played some Trevor James saxes lately when I was in England, and although they weren't bad at all, they were far away from the description of Higgins. But they were no Signature Customs.

My idea : TJ is doing a lot of effort for the marketing. A bit too much for my taste. Or at least in the wrong way. It makes me suspicious, in the way that you can buy as much sax for less money. But it can merely be a wrong marketing approach, or me being overly suspicious for anything that smells marketing from far away.

This said : if it blows, buy it. But before you buy, blow it.
The reason im putting effort in as you say is because i made a post ref Signature Custom and have been bloody blasted one way or another for it since...and have been cheesed of by the onesided negativity you seem to get here about something new or diffrent. and because im sick of people thinking im something to do with TJ's jeeezzz i give up with this site you cant have an opinion unless its the same as everyone elses on here.
 

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I don't know much about the horn and the guy who is playing nice.But I was kind of shocked by reading the posts.Even felt pity for some.

We all know sax are not in tune.Some people might be able to play in tune in this horn,or that horn easy while others might not.If you can play in tune with your horn, the player the listener, everybody is happy.Same for sound, if you can make a sound you like from your horn everybody is happy.Well at least the player is happy which makes the listener who wants to hear happy.

I felt there was more than like or dislike,which gave me sad feelings.

Is my English OK?
 

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Good questions Joel and althought i belive they were not directed at me perhaps you would allow me the liberty of answering them also.

Do you actually know Mr. Higgins personally?
Yes i do know Dave O'Higgins and apart from being a great player he is a bloody nice guy.

Have you just sat down and talked with him?
Yea i have many times and again he is a really genuine and pleasant person. and very interesting to talk to.

Is this the kind of attitude that you are passing off on your students?
Well i dont teach simply dont have the time but if i did the answer would be NO i would infact tell them to listen to players such as Dave and learn from them.

Good post Joel glad im not the only one who gets wound up with the way some people think in these forums.
Well we are entitled to our views!, ive met,listened to him twice and both times found him a really nice lad,very informative gave me some excellent ideas on improvisation, etc, a very accomplished player in my view,
This site does get a bit controversial!! now and then, and i like to think we all learnfrom whats said as a rule.
bryan
 

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The reason im putting effort in as you say is because i made a post ref Signature Custom and have been bloody blasted one way or another for it since...and have been cheesed of by the onesided negativity you seem to get here about something new or diffrent. and because im sick of people thinking im something to do with TJ's jeeezzz i give up with this site you cant have an opinion unless its the same as everyone elses on here.
I was just giving my impression, I apologize if I am wrong.

And I stay with my opinion : if you blow it and you like it, buy it. But before you buy it, blow it. As with any other horn.
 

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And can I say one more time, please can we allow each other to have different opinions on the saxophone players they like or dislike.
I'd agree with Pete here. To add further, if you admire a player, I think it only natural that you'd want to defend them, so that is why people have jumped to Dave's defense - as I am almost tempted to, just a natural human instinct. I have met him, many years ago now, and he was a pleasure to listen to and talk to also, at The Band On The Wall in Manchester, UK. I have one of his albums, and his playing and sound are excellent. For those who haven't heard him, recorded or live, follow the threads given. His list of playing with speaks for itself.

Everyone has a right to give their opinion of him, or ANY player (big name or not) here. However, we must be prepared to take our own medicine if we speak negatively. There are links to someone's site through this thread, that I listened to, and whilst the phrasing is nice in places, the tuning is not. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Oh, and Rory, thanks for the links to the You Tube funnies. Earxcellent...(a la Mr Burns!)
 

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no problem about the player, and not even with thew horn, just big question marks on the " Made in Egland" stamp, that's all
 

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As far as your remarks Pete quiete frankly thats your opinion and clearly you seem set to belive that all TJ can make is a student instrument, and its my opinion that this is realy reason you have decided that the Signature Custom is not a good sax...I say this because i do not belive you when you say that are out of tune this in my humble opinion is bull. I have played many of these sax's and have heard D O'higgins playing his and i can hear no tuning problems with any of them. Its strange that despite people saying they would liek to see a UK Sax do well they are very quick to shoot it down in flames when someone tries to do just that...that to me is what is very sad.
I just tried a couple of these (tenors) at the Frankfurt Musikmesse and these ones were not out of tune. They were in fact fine instruments of a professional quality, unlike the ones I tried previously. I hope this statement will convince you of my objectivity.

I am very happy to say this because it is (as before) my honest opinion of the saxophones I played. I wonder if you still think I am
set to belive that all TJ can make is a student instrument
 
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