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Discussion Starter #1
I just picked up a new yts-23. Looking for a mpc that will provide a thicker, darker sound without being tubby. Thinking maybe the Phil-Tone Intrepid, the Tribute, Drake Bergonzi EB or possibly just try a few metal Link NY's(not new vintage).

Any thoughts or other ideas?
 

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Tenney Jazzmaster

Check it out on Steve Neff's site.

2nd option: Benjamin Allen 10e, atlhough brighter than the Tenney Jazzmaster.
There is a 10e for sale now in the marketplace for $225, by vendela, I think.


I have a Jazzmaster that I could sell for $350.
I have a couple of them.
 

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Not to be a complete kill-joy here, but it's IMPOSSIBLE to recommend a mouthpiece to you with those characteristics, simply because everyone........EVERYONE sounds different on virtually any mouthpiece. Not to mention my definition/opinion of tubbyness certainly isn't the same as anyone else's either! I can't tell you how many times I've loved someone's sound on a certain mouthpiece and tried it, only to sound completely different.......like me. Same vice-versa. I've had people try my set up and get a completely different sound. I'd take a trip to Boston Sax Shop and try some different 'pieces so you yourself can get at least a ballpark idea. Not sure if there are any other stores near you (I haven't lived in Boston since 2000), but there's no better way than trying in person.

John
 

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Not to be a complete kill-joy here, but it's IMPOSSIBLE to recommend a mouthpiece to you with those characteristics, simply because everyone........EVERYONE sounds different on virtually any mouthpiece. Not to mention my definition/opinion of tubbyness certainly isn't the same as anyone else's either! I can't tell you how many times I've loved someone's sound on a certain mouthpiece and tried it, only to sound completely different.......like me. Same vice-versa. I've had people try my set up and get a completely different sound. I'd take a trip to Boston Sax Shop and try some different 'pieces so you yourself can get at least a ballpark idea. Not sure if there are any other stores near you (I haven't lived in Boston since 2000), but there's no better way than trying in person.

John
+1000

My son plays primarily alto now but he has always “blown dark” whether playing alto or tenor. When he was a freshman in college, Fred Lebayle did a workshop session and brought mouthpieces for demo and for students to try out. At the time, my son was using a Phil-Tone Rift, which being a lead alto-type mp is a somewhat bright mouthpiece by design. So, my son played on the Rift a bit and when Fred Lebayle asked to look at the mp he did a double take. He couldn’t imagine how my son’s tone would be so dark with the baffle that the Rift has (his initial response was that shouldn’t be). But that is how he blows. My son did sample several mps and ended up finding a Lebayle mp that he loved (he is now a senior at college and it is now his main piece, with the Rift now his backup). Indeed, although he plays alto, his tone is a dark alto tone (if you close your eyes he sounds borderline tenorish.

So, the unique variance of everyone’s oral cavity/embouchure/manner of blowing and the resulting importance of trying the mps yourself cannot be overstated.

-floobydust
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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Looking for a mpc that will provide a thicker, darker sound without being tubby. ?

Not to be a complete kill-joy here, but it's IMPOSSIBLE to recommend a mouthpiece to you with those characteristics, simply because everyone........EVERYONE sounds different on virtually any mouthpiece.
So, probably the best thing to do is find an embouchure that will provide a thicker, darker sound without being tubby.
 

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So, probably the best thing to do is find an embouchure that will provide a thicker, darker sound without being tubby.
Indeed, my son with the normally dark alto tone has told me that when needed (such as playing in a big band) he adopts a change in embouchure to blow brighter. Although if he takes a solo during a big band gig, he will revert to his normal darker embouchure for the solo, then plays brighter for all the rest of it.

-floobydust

-
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yeah, I know everyone blows different but mouthpieces are made in general to have a certain sound. A MBII is not gonna sound like a vintage metal tone master. So there is something to be said for asking abut pieces that lean towards a certain sound.
 

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OP, from your sig block it looks like you have a Vandoren T6 for your 10M? How does that sound on your 23? Otherwise there are a number of great suggestions here that facilitate "thicker darker"- Drake's, B. Allen, Phil-Tone HR pieces, also Morgan HR's (Jazz or Excalibur lines). If you've been playing a 10M, I'm guessing you have an established embouchure. Did you get the 23 for a different tonal color, maybe brighter?
 

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Not to de-rail this thread but those YTS 23 horns (if set up properly) can be killer horns. I know most people get into the student vs pro horn thing but IMHO , if a horn sounds and plays great , that is all that matters in the end.
I once heard a pro New Orleans tenor player on one of those horns at a outdoor Jazz fest and he sounded great and killed on that horn. Regarding the mouthpiece thing, I agree with many of the replies above, it is always best to try one out because Everyone will sound different on the same set up
 

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The only thing about 23's is they aren't really that flexible tonally. They have a middle of the road medium bright sound that sounds ok. But as soon as you start playing any of the other Yamaha's (Pro) in comparison you see why they are student horns. Getting a different mouthpiece to get a darker sound out of a horn that isn't going to give it to you isn't really the best option in my opinion.

Troy Roberts sounds great on his student Yamaha in those videos going around. But it's very bright and edgy. Throughout his entire range. He sounds easily better on his old Conn. And there's a reason.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I disagree with that assessment of Yamaha horns. I've owned a 62II,82Z,23,21 and quite frankly they all sounded so similar you would be very hard pressed tell the difference as a listener. Also, all the Yamaha horns are like a clean slate. You can produce many difference sounds depending on mpc and player.

Also, I like Troy on the Yamaha playing with James Morrison much better than the Conn.
 

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The only thing about 23's is they aren't really that flexible tonally. They have a middle of the road medium bright sound that sounds ok. But as soon as you start playing any of the other Yamaha's (Pro) in comparison you see why they are student horns.

Troy Roberts sounds great on his student Yamaha in those videos going around. He sounds easily better on his old Conn. And there's a reason.


Can't agree totally on this. First of all , sound and tone are subjective. There are Many different tenor tones, like a human voice. The flexibility comes more from the player and the set up. The players I have heard on those horns were as tonally flexible as you can get (everything from dark, bright , sub tone and in between). I have owned and played many tenors and it comes down to the individual horn and set up and probably most of all, the player.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
twowheels,

I sold the 10M and bought a brand new used yts-23. It had only been played about 5 times. The V16 and Java pieces are inherently bright/brittle sounding. Leaning towards the Phil-Tone Tribute.
 

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I guess my 7 years on a 23 started 20 years ago so my memory (and ability at the time) isn't the best. But I have played a couple of them since just in passing and I feel like they are great horns who different people could certainly get different sounds out of. But I for instance had a harder time going from really bright and brash to soulful and darker. Which I have found easier on pretty much every other professional horn I've had a chance to play.

They just don't fill up the way other horns do. It's not that they are bad. They are the best student horns out there. But they're still student horns.

People do the same thing with mouthpieces. I call it trying to get blood from a stone. Trying to get a certain thing out of something that doesn't want to give it to you.

There's a reason people choose gear. Because of the tendencies those particular pieces of gear favor. Whether that's being bright or dark or edgy or flexible. I'd certainly play a 23 as an on the road horn if I had one. But the difference between all the 23's I've played and my YTS 61 is really night and day. There is no comparison.

And specifically to the OP. If you're going from a V16 to something that's based off of a Florida Link you're really only making a sideways step. The tribute is going to be a really nice piece and far higher quality than the stock V16's. But sound wise I think you're still going to be in the same ball park. Just more fun to play. Bigger sounding.
 

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+1000

My son plays primarily alto now but he has always “blown dark” whether playing alto or tenor. When he was a freshman in college, Fred Lebayle did a workshop session and brought mouthpieces for demo and for students to try out. At the time, my son was using a Phil-Tone Rift, which being a lead alto-type mp is a somewhat bright mouthpiece by design. So, my son played on the Rift a bit and when Fred Lebayle asked to look at the mp he did a double take. He couldn’t imagine how my son’s tone would be so dark with the baffle that the Rift has (his initial response was that shouldn’t be). But that is how he blows. My son did sample several mps and ended up finding a Lebayle mp that he loved (he is now a senior at college and it is now his main piece, with the Rift now his backup). Indeed, although he plays alto, his tone is a dark alto tone (if you close your eyes he sounds borderline tenorish.

So, the unique variance of everyone’s oral cavity/embouchure/manner of blowing and the resulting importance of trying the mps yourself cannot be overstated.

-floobydust
If your son is getting a very dark sound on a high baffle mouthpiece he's doing something wrong, probably applying too much pressure to the mouthpiece and reed with the muscles in his face and he may be working harder than he has to therefore not allowing him up to play his ideas freely. He'd be better off if he played a mouthpiece more like a Meyer or something like a low baffle piece with a bigger chamber and loosened up. He'd get a much fuller sound and he'd be able to control the brightness at will. I've seen this a million times with my customers, as soon as they do the Joe Allard exercises (on my site) they sounded too bright on their high baffle mouthpieces and when they switched to a more traditional piece they immediately got more sound with plenty of brightness and body too. I studied with Joe and after doing his exercises (and Victor Morosco's) I was pretty much able to play any mouthpiece and control the brightness without it getting thin. I ended up making some mouthpieces for myself that just felt better, it boiled down to feel rather than sound because within reason I was able to get my sound on any mouthpiece. Check out the exercises. Phil Barone
 

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twowheels,

I sold the 10M and bought a brand new used yts-23. It had only been played about 5 times. The V16 and Java pieces are inherently bright/brittle sounding. Leaning towards the Phil-Tone Tribute.
BobD, got it...you've been on the forum for quite a while and I thought I remembered you weighing-in on tenor stuff from time to time. :)

Maybe this is helpful, but I just put my kid's YAS-26 (YAS-23 successor) in the shop for tune-up that he has played for the past 4 years. I play-tested it with my own personal alto piece, a Morgan Excalibur 7M and it was plenty lively; the Morgan tends to be a little brighter and I find it easy to shape the tone. (I *really* like my Rift 7 on alto too, though....) But that's an alto and not a tenor, and you're asking about tenor.

I like the Morgans so much I've been playing an Excalibur 8* (.105) on my tenor..more brilliant than the average Link but still full and round...on my Ref 36. My tonal concept is more along the lines of Turrentine, the artist I model myself after. Again, I think a Drake NYJ, Morgan Excalibur (I'd go ML-to-L) would be great. But I've been eyeing the Phil-Tone Intrepid, too, have been holding my GAS at bay. Had a Tribute in the past and it played great too, not tubby at all. G'luck with the search/hunt!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
littlwhaler,

I guess it gets down to personal perception. I also had a 61,forgot to post it in my last post, and I actually felt like I got a better sound from the 21 I owned. As far as the V16 pieces, they have a definite brittleness to the palm keys. Very piercing and not rounded. The V16 is not like a Link so I'm hoping the Tribute will be a good sounding Link with a fatter sound through out the horn than the V16.
 

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Yeah, I know everyone blows different but mouthpieces are made in general to have a certain sound. A MBII is not gonna sound like a vintage metal tone master. So there is something to be said for asking abut pieces that lean towards a certain sound.
Of course you're correct, Bob. All I'm saying is I and others could recommend something that gives us a darker/fatter sound, but wouldn't necessarily or automatically work for you. Sounds like you already have a general idea what you're after. Good luck with it!

J.
 
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