curved, straight or saxello?
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Some sound - obviously - always comes out of the toneholes up and down the horn. FWIW, I think the difference in sound between sax shapes mostly matters to the player behind the horn. The more of the horn is "in your face," the more you will hear of your own sound and tone, because it will be coming out closer to your ears.
This isn't necessarily irrelevant to the music you play. Sometimes you need to hear your own tone color, not just your own sound - say in certain types of classical quartets, where it's important to have one uniform tone quality. (Some quartets emphasize this, some don't.) Then you will want a curved horn, because you'll hear more of your own tone.
The effect on the listener, I believe, depends more than anything else on whether you're playing to other saxophonists or to the general public.
To the non-specialist listener, a good sop sax sound is a good sop sax sound no matter what shape the horn is.
This isn't necessarily irrelevant to the music you play. Sometimes you need to hear your own tone color, not just your own sound - say in certain types of classical quartets, where it's important to have one uniform tone quality. (Some quartets emphasize this, some don't.) Then you will want a curved horn, because you'll hear more of your own tone.
The effect on the listener, I believe, depends more than anything else on whether you're playing to other saxophonists or to the general public.
To the non-specialist listener, a good sop sax sound is a good sop sax sound no matter what shape the horn is.
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Yes, I kind of agree with the poster above. When I made recordings of my straight and curved sopranos, they actually sound rather similar on the recording, which somewhat surprised me. But I still feel that the straight soprano is actually slightly rounder and warmer sounding than the curved soprano. But as mentioned above, this could just be my own subjective perception from behind the horn, and the listener may not hear this difference.
The downside is that straight sops are hard on the right hand. Using a strap helps, but it is still less comfortable than the curvies. So playing position and ergos favour the curvies, while sound quality favours the straight sops.
As to the saxello, mostly these seem to me to be 'user unfriendly' straights. A straight sop goes easily on a stand, but as soon as they bend that bell by 30 to 90 degrees to make it a saxello, then it won't go on that stand anymore. So while saxello might look cool and be somewhat of a fashion statement, it really is just a straight sop made more fidgety IMO.
When we reach the stage where we are thinking - "right, I've got my 10 or 20 horns now, so what else is there to buy next?", then mysteriously the word 'saxello' springs up. Or perhaps 'sopranino'...
The downside is that straight sops are hard on the right hand. Using a strap helps, but it is still less comfortable than the curvies. So playing position and ergos favour the curvies, while sound quality favours the straight sops.
As to the saxello, mostly these seem to me to be 'user unfriendly' straights. A straight sop goes easily on a stand, but as soon as they bend that bell by 30 to 90 degrees to make it a saxello, then it won't go on that stand anymore. So while saxello might look cool and be somewhat of a fashion statement, it really is just a straight sop made more fidgety IMO.
When we reach the stage where we are thinking - "right, I've got my 10 or 20 horns now, so what else is there to buy next?", then mysteriously the word 'saxello' springs up. Or perhaps 'sopranino'...
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Thanks, I was mostly curious about the saxello, I've experienced the straight and curved varieties, and tend to prefer the curved. However, I was scoping around and saw a bent one (a saxello I now know). I thought someone broke a straight one at first!
curious about the origins of this goofy horn. Was it a fad or did they actually have a intelligent reason for producing and them?
curious about the origins of this goofy horn. Was it a fad or did they actually have a intelligent reason for producing and them?
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The tipped-bell sopranos (and the real King Saxello) are products of the early 20th century. Buescher made a tipped bell soprano (and a similar alto) but the bell wasn't tipped as radically as the King Saxello (the Saxello had a bell curved out at 90 degrees). The Saxello also had a curious stand with two squared rods that affixed to the back above the bell - combined with the 90-degree bell, the two rods formed a triangle rest for the horn.
The modern tipped-bell sopranos have a bell curved at about 45 degrees. I agree with paulwl, there is little difference among any of them (and I've owned a Saxello as well as a tipped-bell modern soprano - a Rampone), along with numerous fully curved and straight sopranos, except that every Saxello I've played had intonation issues. On the other hand, I've heard one Saxello played beautifully and with good intonation, so not all are out of tune.
The tipped-bell sopranos do pose a problem if you play more than one instrument and want to put the soprano down. I cumshawed a stand for mine out of a bari sax stand, but it wasn't very stable - always made me nervous when racking it.
Why? I don't know - maybe just the saxophone craze of the 1920's - everyone wanted something different. DAVE
The modern tipped-bell sopranos have a bell curved at about 45 degrees. I agree with paulwl, there is little difference among any of them (and I've owned a Saxello as well as a tipped-bell modern soprano - a Rampone), along with numerous fully curved and straight sopranos, except that every Saxello I've played had intonation issues. On the other hand, I've heard one Saxello played beautifully and with good intonation, so not all are out of tune.
The tipped-bell sopranos do pose a problem if you play more than one instrument and want to put the soprano down. I cumshawed a stand for mine out of a bari sax stand, but it wasn't very stable - always made me nervous when racking it.
Why? I don't know - maybe just the saxophone craze of the 1920's - everyone wanted something different. DAVE
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In my opinion they can all sound different.The straight has its characteristic lyrical sound, the modern Saxellos are warmer and more spread and the Curvies sometimes similar to a straight sometimes more spread and big, depending of the maker.
The good Asian horns (Taiwan and China) out there are being made after Yanagisawas or with a bigger bore.
My HOULI made CE Winds Saxello has a big bore. Sweeping the two necks brings a clear difference in sound also.The straight neck produces better intonation and helps playing the upper notes and sound more like a straight but not really like one.
The straight sops made after the Yanagisawas sound typical.
The bore size makes the difference at most.
I owned a curvy CONN silver plated. Gorgeous sound, palm keys were a nightmere for me. Sold for big money.
bought a Maxtone curvy.MAXTONE brought it to the last German Musical Fair in Frankfurt and I ordered.
Excellent ergos and finish, ugly setup, bent key and rod... I will give it as gift here in Africa to a friend. (they can not afford for them here)
My Saxello Omega professional is reliable and sounds pretty good. The limits are on me, I need a neckstrap otherwise it gets too heavy after a while playing.
I´d like to have a good curvy too. The play comfort is much better and some curvies out there sound just fantastic.
The good Asian horns (Taiwan and China) out there are being made after Yanagisawas or with a bigger bore.
My HOULI made CE Winds Saxello has a big bore. Sweeping the two necks brings a clear difference in sound also.The straight neck produces better intonation and helps playing the upper notes and sound more like a straight but not really like one.
The straight sops made after the Yanagisawas sound typical.
The bore size makes the difference at most.
I owned a curvy CONN silver plated. Gorgeous sound, palm keys were a nightmere for me. Sold for big money.
bought a Maxtone curvy.MAXTONE brought it to the last German Musical Fair in Frankfurt and I ordered.
Excellent ergos and finish, ugly setup, bent key and rod... I will give it as gift here in Africa to a friend. (they can not afford for them here)
My Saxello Omega professional is reliable and sounds pretty good. The limits are on me, I need a neckstrap otherwise it gets too heavy after a while playing.
I´d like to have a good curvy too. The play comfort is much better and some curvies out there sound just fantastic.
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I play a Yanagisawa curved soprano, partly because it is easier to use with a microphone, but mostly because it's a great horn. There is very little difference between "tipped bell" sopranos and straight sopranos, in terms of sound. I have a 1920s Buescher "tipped bell" soprano that is one of the best I've played, but it's the horn, not the shape, and I went through a hassle making a stand that worked with the tipped bell, which is what modern "saxellos" really are.
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Curved: you hear yourself better (no difference to audience)
Curved: better ergonomics (easier on RH thumb)
Curved: smaller package, easier to carry around
Curved: easier to mic
Straight: some great vintage horns, you can look like Trane, Lacy, Liebman, etc. (even Kenny G), hard to mic
Saxello: weird shape, impossible to find a stand for, hard to mic
You can probably guess what I play
Curved: better ergonomics (easier on RH thumb)
Curved: smaller package, easier to carry around
Curved: easier to mic
Straight: some great vintage horns, you can look like Trane, Lacy, Liebman, etc. (even Kenny G), hard to mic
Saxello: weird shape, impossible to find a stand for, hard to mic
You can probably guess what I play
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saxello :mrgreen:
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I would add to the Curved category "some great vintage horns," but only the Buescher and Conn, as no one else did a high F horn.
I was gonna guess curved. Non-vintage.
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ANOTHER VOTE FOR CURVED. I PLAY A YANI SC992 and would never think of playing a straight soprano again for all the reasons stated. This is a very comfortable, nice ergo horn with great intonation and response and sound throughout the range - a real pleasure to play and easy to schlepp around with the Glen Cronkhite gig bag (like a shaving kit- ha!)
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I have all 3. A King saxello, A King curved and a Mark V1 . I like them all and think they all sound a little different but I think differently when I play them.
I had a stand made for the King saxello which is a scaled down version of my Blayman bassclarinet stand and works perfectly.
I had a stand made for the King saxello which is a scaled down version of my Blayman bassclarinet stand and works perfectly.
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When you're primarily a clarinetist, choosing a sop sax comes with different issues to consider.
A straight sop closely resembles the feel of the clarinet. Too easy to 'forget' what you're doing and slip into "Clarinet Mode".
The same thing with the saxello.
To keep the mind on the business at hand it has to be a curvy. Sax look, sax feel. Staying in "Sax Mode" isn't a problem.
Then you have to throw in the female perspective when choosing a sop. How heavy, and is it CUTE!
A straight sop closely resembles the feel of the clarinet. Too easy to 'forget' what you're doing and slip into "Clarinet Mode".
The same thing with the saxello.
To keep the mind on the business at hand it has to be a curvy. Sax look, sax feel. Staying in "Sax Mode" isn't a problem.
Then you have to throw in the female perspective when choosing a sop. How heavy, and is it CUTE!
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Bandmommy, it seems to me that if you're going for cute and female, the only choice is the curvy :bluewink:!
In truth, I'm torn between my Yani SC992 and my Keilwerth SX90II - they both play exceedingly well and have good intonation, but the straight Keilwerth seems to have a fuller, darker sound. I've been told (but haven't measured) that this may be due to Keilwerths having a little larger bore. Both play just a tad harder (ergo-wise) and sound a little better than my old Kessler Custom tipped bell soprano - which is one of the easiest playing horns I've ever had.
And my straight Yani sopranino plays/sounds much better than my curved (Orsi) sopranino - which may be caused by fat fingers on my part - although both seem to successfully attract large packs of wild dogs.
In truth, I'm torn between my Yani SC992 and my Keilwerth SX90II - they both play exceedingly well and have good intonation, but the straight Keilwerth seems to have a fuller, darker sound. I've been told (but haven't measured) that this may be due to Keilwerths having a little larger bore. Both play just a tad harder (ergo-wise) and sound a little better than my old Kessler Custom tipped bell soprano - which is one of the easiest playing horns I've ever had.
And my straight Yani sopranino plays/sounds much better than my curved (Orsi) sopranino - which may be caused by fat fingers on my part - although both seem to successfully attract large packs of wild dogs.
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I remember "old Dick Lane" from L.A.'s Channel 5 wrestling shows from early home TV.
Anyway, I believe any differences we all hear are the normal differences we all hear . . . meaning, almost all saxophones sound a bit different to the player, even among saxophones of the same brand and model. But those perceived differences are not because of the horns' shapes or bell-directions. One only needs to listen to their own recordings (like the audience hears your horns) to understand that if someone didn't know what your horns' shapes were, they would not be able to identify their shapes.
A family member owns an SC992 and I listened to him play it at a wedding last year. Sounded like a soprano to me. That's exactly what my SC902 sounded like on a set of recordings I made a few years ago with another band. If I didn't recall using a curved sop, it sounded like me playing any soprano. I think we all WANT to believe the claims continually going around but the reality is that sopranos sound like sopranos regardless of their shape, and any difference is only what would be expected out of several different sopranos. DAVE
Anyway, I believe any differences we all hear are the normal differences we all hear . . . meaning, almost all saxophones sound a bit different to the player, even among saxophones of the same brand and model. But those perceived differences are not because of the horns' shapes or bell-directions. One only needs to listen to their own recordings (like the audience hears your horns) to understand that if someone didn't know what your horns' shapes were, they would not be able to identify their shapes.
A family member owns an SC992 and I listened to him play it at a wedding last year. Sounded like a soprano to me. That's exactly what my SC902 sounded like on a set of recordings I made a few years ago with another band. If I didn't recall using a curved sop, it sounded like me playing any soprano. I think we all WANT to believe the claims continually going around but the reality is that sopranos sound like sopranos regardless of their shape, and any difference is only what would be expected out of several different sopranos. DAVE
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I have a theory that back in the day, straight sops were for doublers and pros, and curveds were for nondoublers and nonpros. (I go into it in a little more detail here.)
The nonpro group would (I think) have included all-sax bands and concert bands. But what about marching bands? Which horn is easier to march?
No sopranos are used in concert or marching bands today. But instrumentation was not so standardized once. You had bass sax parts, Eb alto (peck) horn and such animals.
The nonpro group would (I think) have included all-sax bands and concert bands. But what about marching bands? Which horn is easier to march?
No sopranos are used in concert or marching bands today. But instrumentation was not so standardized once. You had bass sax parts, Eb alto (peck) horn and such animals.
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For me I play my JK sop with the curvy neck mostly because the ergo's are a little easier but it does sound very slightly different perhaps a bit "darker" with the curvy neck.
I will get a R & C saxello as one day but need to try em on for size.
I will get a R & C saxello as one day but need to try em on for size.
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I think curved is a good choice if you are doing a lot of big-band section playing, especially live. The mics for the sax section will point down toward the bells of the other horns, and are generally at or above the players' head level, to accommodate flute pickup. Straight soprano will be "lost" in this situation, even more so if the band uses those "dance band" type stands.
Other than that, no difference (rather, the difference comes from the various qualities of the horn). I have owned all three types, and currently own a Martin straight and Venus tipped-bell. Both are great horns, in their own right. I used to own a Buescher curved, also a great horn, but alas it was stolen.
One factor that does, I think, make a difference, is whether the neck can be removed or not. I think the non-removable necks are a little more likely to play better, in general. (This means that some removable neck horns are just fine, and some fixed neck horns suck...)
Other than that, no difference (rather, the difference comes from the various qualities of the horn). I have owned all three types, and currently own a Martin straight and Venus tipped-bell. Both are great horns, in their own right. I used to own a Buescher curved, also a great horn, but alas it was stolen.
One factor that does, I think, make a difference, is whether the neck can be removed or not. I think the non-removable necks are a little more likely to play better, in general. (This means that some removable neck horns are just fine, and some fixed neck horns suck...)
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I play the rampone Cazzani curved........... horn plays itself......... just amazing with a Wanne gaia 8
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Here's a slightly different take. I have a Yani straight, Yani curvy and Barone tip bell. Each (to me) sounds very different. The full curve neck on the curvy is a darker sound (have recorded and compared, so not just player perception). The slighter curve the brighter the sound up to straight. The most dramatic example of this was putting the full curve neck on to the straight body. Changed the sound dramatically! Obviously mouthpieces make a big difference. The tip bell I play with a Yani metal mouthpiece which has a brassy sound. The sound inspires me to play in a more trumpet like fashion.
As mentioned by others the ergos of the curvy are best and it's easier to mike. The sound of each of these is so different that it inspires a different style of playing (for me). Wouldn't want to be without all three.
As mentioned by others the ergos of the curvy are best and it's easier to mike. The sound of each of these is so different that it inspires a different style of playing (for me). Wouldn't want to be without all three.
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