Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am having a discussion with another musician About the correct phrasing in the following bar:


View attachment 225012

Supposed this is a swing piece; which of the notes is tongued?


Thanks for your help!
 

·
Moderator
Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
Joined
·
28,919 Posts
I don't think there would be any absolute "correct" way regarding tonguing, in an ensemble (with no kind of slurring marked) it would be up to the lead player to determine.

Obviously the first note should be tongued (lightly), the second (A) seems like it should have an accented feel so maybe a more marked tonguing and definitely played short. (The shortness of that note is, IMO, the crucial part of "swing phrasing" here.

As it is played short I'd add a light tongue to the next note (G) which could be slurred into the F#, but then again a very light tongue on the F# is also fine in my book.

So much is down to how well players can do light legato tonguing, which ideally is not noticeable as any kind of attack on the note.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013-
Joined
·
5,431 Posts
Whatever the lead alto says it is.

(A big part of this could be what is missing. Lead in and next step. Cool swing, Texas, or wide?)

I am not trying to be a smart alack. The doggone notation on the page gets in the way, sometimes.
 

·
Distinguished Member, Forum Contributor 2008
Joined
·
3,805 Posts
I always suggest this book as the basic guide to interpreting swing notation:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,458 Posts
I would play it

Tah-thot!-ta-thah.

Of all this, the most important tonguing is the one that stops the quarter note in between the two eighths.

Remember, in jazz articulation the ends of the notes are as important or more so than the beginnings. I would probably give the beginning of the quarter and the half note a light tonguing, but honestly it would depend on a lot of things whether that was an actual tongue contact with the reed or maybe just a voicing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,458 Posts
I always suggest this book as the basic guide to interpreting swing notation:

Cool! I had never heard of this book (I learned on the bandstand). I may order a copy just to see if there's something I've been doing wrong all this time...
 

·
SOTW Member
Joined
·
3,394 Posts
the D and G
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,324 Posts
the D and G
That's the exact opposite of how I would phrase it. I agree with Pete: doo-DAAA doo-DA
This is how the master plays about the same rhythm, except the last note is short, middle longer (first horn phrase after the piano intro):
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,017 Posts
For the given example, I would play it Du Dot Da Ah__ or Du Dot Da Dah__ For me the slur would be optional, with the legato tonguing being the most important element of style.

Another excellent jazz style reference book is The Articulate Jazz Musician by Caleb Chapman and Jeff Coffin. It comes with a CD and is written for all instruments in a jazz ensemble. You may know Caleb from his videos of the Crescent Super Band in Utah.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,017 Posts
That's the exact opposite of how I would phrase it. I agree with Pete: doo-DAAA doo-DA
This is how the master plays about the same rhythm, except the last note is short, middle longer (first horn phrase after the piano intro):
Camptown Ladies sing this song. . .
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2009
Joined
·
5,384 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
547 Posts
The choice of type of this motive articulation is influenced by various factors: the style of music period, tempo, rhythmic groove. For example, such a rhythmic pattern in Dixieland may require isolated articulation for each note . Or, in the swing style of 30s-40s at a fast tempo - full legato in one breath.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top