[lamar reeves]

My Yani 880 alto'neck has a tight fit going into the receiver.The local music store on this Island does not sell cork grease.Is there a common product such as silicon or soap that I can use without damaging the brass or pads if a little gets on one?

 

[milandro]

vaseline or lip balm

 

[akumaJFR]

I use unscented lip balm on mine, the most basic kind. I figure the extra stuff that goes into protecting your lips might degrade the cork, but I honestly dunno for sure. Works really well for me though

 

[milandro]

the cork doesn't mind a bit, don't worry, keep on using anything reasonably greasy and not too runny, grease which smells good (cork grease from Selmer or Buffet has a faint menthol scent) is just as good as grease which doesn't smell at all. Vaseline is good too, doesn't smell of anything .

 

[Pgraves]

That stuff will probably build up and get gummy, making it even tighter.
Might even be tight now from some crud buildup.
I've seen techs use "lapping compound" to remove this and make the fitting right. Get it looked at. Do you pick up your horn by the neck? Do you push your mouthpiece onto the neck while holding the horn by the body instead of supporting by the neck? Various subtle applications of force to the neck gradually cause fitting problems.

 

[potiphar]

Cork grease is mainly Vaseline anyway.

 

[milandro]

Cork grease is mainly Vaseline anyway.

yep, and so is lip balm....at least, most brands. It won't become gummy.

 

[bandmommy]

After you've cleaned any crud out of the reciever, try slide cream used by brass players. It's lighter and works better than vaseline and lip balm.

 

[milandro]

well the original question was on what to use as an alternative to cork grease because the local shop doesn't carry it, if they don't carry that, why would they have brass players cream or liquid?

 

[griff136]

I woould advise using anything like grease to get your crook to fit into your reciever.

the grease will collect the dust and crud and then act as a grinding paste making grooves in your neck collar and reciever.

may I suggest you clean your reciever and crook collar with 0000 gauge wire wool - nothing coarser though.

or clean with brasso and thoroughly clean off afterwards.

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

Woah!! "Receiver" normally means the top of the body of the sax. So this would seem to have nothing to do with the fit of the mouthpiece on a tenon CORK. It is most likely to do with the fit of the neck into the body of the sax. So some of the advice here may be really bad, for this situation.

IF you use any lubricant such as cork grease (or nose grease rubbed off the side of your nose, which is an excellent lubricant!) on a metal tenon, then wipe it off thoroughly before putting the neck into the body. Enough undetectable lubricant will remain to perform a function. If the surface is at all sticky from grease that has been applied, then it will collect abrasive material, eg dust, from the environment and damage the tenon surfaces involved. I would not use Vaseline... It has too much 'grip-slip' that can cause big problems with tight-fitting metal.

As a rule, never use lubricants on metal tenons. They simply should not need them!

For a Yanagisawa, it is extremely unlikely that the fit was tight originally.

The tight fit is almost certainly caused by corrosion. IMO steel wool is not great advice, because steel is unnecessarily scratchy on brass, and also, the coarser grades could do a fair bit of damage to the surface.

1. It could be because of dirt. Simply clean the surface of the tenon and socket well. I use naphtha (lighter fluid). If this does not work...

2. 95% certainty the problem is because of corrosion. Use a product especially made for the purpose: Use a reputable brand-name brass polish - I use Brasso - to remove the tarnish from both the tenon and the socket. Make sure you get ALL of it off - no more black on the cloth - before putting the neck back in the socket.

3. The fit in the OPENING of the neck receiver can be damaged if the neck screw is tightened firmly while the neck is not inside the sax. If this is the case, i.e. it is tight even when you BEGIN assembling the neck to the sax, then remove the neck screw, put the neck in only about 7 mm, and VERY CAREFULLY use the neck as a lever to slightly prise apart the slot that the neck screw goes across. If you have any doubts at all about doing this, then DON'T do it!! If you put too much force on the neck,you will bend it. (An alternative would be to use a technician's specialised neck expanding tool, but opening the tool this far can potentially damage the tool.)

4. If these suggestions do not solve the problem, then one of the parts has probably been damaged. Either a paraffin wax method (I could explain), or specialised technician tools, or lapping compound apporach will be needed, to adjust the fit or repair damage.

 

[Pgraves]

Thank you!
I'm not a repair guy but the idea of putting anything on the neck or socket did seem like a very bad idea to me.
Lighter fluid and brasso only removes the crud,
"Lapping compound" then is overkill because it removes crud plus possibly more? When is it appropriate to use it?

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

Posts 2,3,4 seem to be about the use of cork grease, on cork.

To clear up a few things...

1. Vaseline is not a good cork grease. It permeates the cork and is very likely to soften the glue that holds the cork on.
2. Many items in balms, etc, including Vaseline, gradually damage the structure of the cork, so that it loses its resiliency.
3. The best cork greases do NOT contain Vaseline.
4. Many cork greases contain products that become stickier and stickier as they dry out, so that in the end that dried cork grease makes the joint more DIFFICULT to assemble. Evidence of this condition is that when you clean it all off, with naphtha (lighter fluid) the mouthpiece goes on MORE easily.
5. Most cork greases on the market are cheap rubbish, even though they may boast the name of a respected instrument maker. If you want decent cork grease, use Alisyn, or one of the two from Doctor's Products. No, shops seldom stock these, because they make a lot more profit form selling cheap rubbish.

 

[jbtsax]

Lighter fluid and brasso only removes the crud,
"Lapping compound" then is overkill because it removes crud plus possibly more? When is it appropriate to use it?

An excellent product to clean and polish the parts of a sax neck tenon that is easy to use is called "Miracle Cloth".

My best answer to your question about when it is appropriate to use lapping compound is:

When you are an experienced repair technician and on a badly fitting neck that other techniques don't work, you need to expand-lap-expand-lap-expand-lap until it fits properly. This is not an easy task because if you add too much lapping compound, or try to lap when the fit is too tight, the neck can seize up on you and create a much bigger problem.

John

 

[bandmommy]

Sorry milandro,
Next time I'll just read and keep my Pie Hole shut.
I'm learning that it's best for Bandmommy to leave SOTW to the 'experts'.

 

[jbtsax]

An excellent alternative to cork grease on neck and tenon corks is paraffin wax. The technique we use in our shop is to pass the end of the paraffin across a flame and rub it across the surface of the cork while the wax is liquid. You do this several times until the cork is liberally covered with the wax. Then your heat your pad slick (a butter knife will do) and re-melt the wax while rubbing it into the pores of the cork.

Before putting the mouthpiece on (clarinet joints together) put a light coat of regular cork grease over the waxed cork. This cuts down on the amount of wax that is rubbed off the first time the parts are put together. The extra wax that does rub off the first few times the parts are assembled can easily be wiped off.

I have treated my sax neck corks this way and after 12 years the corks are still in excellent condition, and I have never needed another drop of cork grease. This is only possible because I never leave my mouthpiece on the neck after playing.

BTW I agree with everything Gordon has said in this thread except his (funny) double negative . It made me think of the Yogi Berra saying that "If the fans don't come out to the ball park, you can't stop them." Also it needs to be emphasized that the "nose grease" should come from the sides of the nose only.

John

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

...My best answer to your question about when it is appropriate to use lapping compound is:

When you are an experienced repair technician and on a badly fitting neck that other techniques don't work, you need to expand-lap-expand-lap-expand-lap until it fits properly. This is not an easy task because if you add too much lapping compound, or try to lap when the fit is too tight, the neck can seize up on you and create a much bigger problem.

John

Excellent answer.

BTW, I hope my double negative was not confusing. (I can't be bothered hunting for it)

 

[jbtsax]

"If you want decent cork grease, use Alisyn, or one of the two from Doctor's Products. No, shops seldom stock these, because they make a lot more profit form selling cheap rubbish."

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

:shock: :twisted:

 

[roberthelpus]

But which cork grease will make me sound like Cannonball Adderley :toothy7: :dazed: