[Mope]

Can someone list and explain the difference in older Conn Models? In a pawn shop not too long ago, the guy showed me 2 old Conn Tenors. He claimed that 1 was a Naked Lady. He wanted $1200 for the Lady. Well, both were marked 10m. The cheaper one was possibly a Mexiconn and was hardly playable. The other did have a big warm sound that I'm still thinking about. But I think it was a Ladyface? It only had a face. It also had Nickel keys? I've seen 10m pics like on Planet Conn and they all have brass keywork. This horn also seemed to have some bad corrosion at the bottom of the bell. I don't think it was worth half what he was asking. But anyway, about the models, can someone make it clear?
Chu Berry?
Naked Lady-older?
10m Artist? Ladyface?
Mexiconn-later 10m made in Arizona?
6m- Alto?
Tranny?
26m?
Pan American?
I know there's more.

 

[Seasax]

a 26m is an alto,
i don't think any 10ms were made in mexico, only shooting start director models,
10ms had LH bell keys,
chus had split bell keys,
the meiconns had LH bell keys but had more modern printed sheet metal keyguards,
whereas M series horns had wire keyguards
Panamerican always said panam on, i think,
they were a sideline model,
only the face of a lady mean it is earlier

 

[Jonathan C.]

I am inclined to agree with SerjeantSax. It is deffiantly NOT a Chu wrong Era. I also don't think it was a Pan Faces were reserved for main line Conn horns known as 6M 10M or Artist models.

Good luck.

 

[SAXISMYAXE]

The pedigree is as follows,

Starting the list with those models most likely encountered and played to this day:
1. New Wonder Series I 1914 to 1924.
2. New Wonder Series II (often nicknamed "Chu Berry") 1924 to c. 1930.
3. New Wonder "Transitional" models 1930 to 1934.
4. Conn "Artist" (nicknamed "Naked Lady") 1934 to 1971.
5. Conn Connquerer 26M and 30M 1935 to 1943. Possibly the finest horns Conn ever made.
6. Conn Connstellation 28M 1948 to 1952.
7. Conn DJH modified horns 1980 to 1985.

In addition to these pro lines, there were the Conn Director or "Shooting Star" Student models that replaced the Pan American line in 1955 and were made until the mid 1970s. These were the horns made in Nogales, AZ (starting around 1960) and later Mexico.

The Artist pro horns or 6M/10M/12M models were NOT made anywhere but Elkhart, IN save for a handful of possible spare parts horns made at the end of 1970, and the end of the Conn company as we know it.

The later model 10M you describe is in no way a "Mexiconn" student Director horn, but a "Naked Lady" Artist horn sans the Lady Face engraving style, rolled tone holes, and a few other mostly cosmetic differences. It is still made in Elkhart, and still a Conn pro horn.

The Pan American line was Conn's second tier, student and school band line of horns that was superseded by their Conn Director line in 1955, as mentioned above.

 

[Mope]

Thanks very much. Then all 10m s are Conn "Artist" pro models whether nickel keys or brass, simply called 10m, naked lady or ladyface, wire key guards or sheet metal. The earliest had rolled tone holes and the latest had sheet metal guards. right?

 

[Seasax]

no
the earlier ones had a lady face on the engraving, wire key guards and most had rolled tone holes,
late 10ms still had wire key guards, but they discontinued the rolled toneholes.

the sheet metal keyguards were made in mexico on the director models.

 

[Mope]

I am sure the one with sheet metal guards also was marked 10M. So that was a director model? Anyway, this cleared up a lot of confusion for me. Thanks.

 

[Seasax]

they could've been replaced,
look on www.saxpics.com

 

[Sax Rohmer]

I've got an old PanAmerican that needs some repairs - I've never even played it, I got it cheap with the intention of having it repaired. However, I wound up buying a Conn Shooting Star instead thats in good shape, so now I'll probably just get rid of the PanAmerican.

I wonder though, is the PanAmerican worth fixing up? I know its just a student-grade horn, but I tend to think that things made 1955 and before are generally of a high quality, so I'm wondering how the PanAmerican's sound compares to that of the Shooting Star? I don't know any specifics on the PanAmerican...it's got "Elkhart, Indiana" engraved on the bell, and would probably play fine with new pads and a recorking of the neck.

The Shooting Star is a student-grade horn too...is it considered any better than the PanAmerican? Or are they about equal in quality?

 

[Seasax]

a good shooting star can be good,
but technically is only a student model,
if you wanna get rid of the panam ill have it,
is it alto or tenor?

 

[Jonathan C.]

I had the joy of playing a late Pan Am probably mid 50's, before it was rented out. And it has a nice full sound. Very much the way that I imagine a older Conn would. And it sounded completly different from the later Shooting Star models. It was a Tenor, and had a nice full sound. I would recomend putting in the time to fix it, they can be great horns. Though techanically begginer or intermediate horns they are still good.

 

[SAXISMYAXE]

Hi SearJeantsax,

I'm sorry M8, but your information is incorrect. Conn began putting sheet metal guards on their later, Elkhart made Artist model horns (6M/10M) starting in 1963, as well as the Director models. This was just 3 or so years after they changed to the double socket neck and the underslung octave key.

In addition to my pre and post war 10M horns, I have a silver plated 10M c. 1967 that is a wonderful player. These are fine horns and a great value as they are priced much less than their earlier brethren, but are still pro quality "Artist" horns:

Regarding the Pan American Sax Rohmer:
You should consider keeping the Pan Am, and getting rid of the "Shooting Star" horn. The Pan Americans are generally well regarded and fine sounding horns, where as the Director horns that replaced them have a well deserved reputation as poorly made horns with build and keywork issues. Especially the later, Nogales/Mexico made horns.

 

[Fred]

FWIW, I put the post-Lady 6M/10M saxes at the top of my "Most Undervalued" list. Furthermore, I believe that had Conn not produced the 6M's and 10M's in earlier, more feature-laden renditions, and had there not been so many of them survive, these often-forgotten post-Lady 6M's and 10M's would be selling for more than they are today.

 

[jmathesonjr]

Does the timeline and the model list that was posted by Saxismyaxe earlier on this thread reflect a general list for all horns, Alto, Tenor, Bari, or is this more of a list for say the Tenor line?

I would love to get my hands on a Conn low Bb Baritone Saxophone with a range up to High F. I have not been looking to hard right now because I don't know what model of Conn I would like. I am thinking right now something made between 1925 and 1960 (at the very latest).

I am also thinking it might be fun to find something that may not be in the best of condition and spent some time and money actually having someone great with old horns put the sax into a playing condition that suits me.

Since I am in no real hurry, I can take my time and have some fun looking.

But again I really do not know what would be the best range of models of Conn Baritone Saxophones.

Any opinions???

 

[Sax Rohmer]

a good shooting star can be good,
but technically is only a student model,
if you wanna get rid of the panam ill have it,
is it alto or tenor?

Its an alto. I think I am going to keep it, but if fixing it up starts to cost too much I may change my mind. If I do, I'll let you know, thanks for your offer Searjent Sax.

Carbs, thanks for your input. Now I'm really curious about how the PanAmerican sounds.

I'm just getting back into playing after about a ten year layoff (didn't have a horn for those 10 years). Not a serious player like many of you, but love to play. Learning a lot from this site!

 

[Mope]

I went back to the pawn shop as I mentioned at the start of this thread. The newer 10M has a serial # L11667 which puts it at 1967? I dismissed it the first time I saw it because I thought it a Mexiconn. This horn is in great shape. The Lacquer and pads look great. Hardly a dent. He's asking $1000. I should offer $700? I should jump on it? Can somebody stop me?

 

[SAXISMYAXE]

$700 to $1000 is a very fair price if it is in good shape and doesn't need a total overhaul etc. Great horns.

 

[Mope]

That's all I need to hear. Thanks, Mike

 

[area51recording]

Yeah. I gave $750 for my 10m ('64 I believe) in 1987. Had just been repadded. It's the only pro horn I've ever owned...also the only one I want.

 

[Mope]

It plays as good as it looks. The best purchase I ever made