[supervinx]

Hi to everyone!
I've got a Conn Bari #180xxx Low Pitch, in excellent shape. It plays well with a big sound but... it's really out of tune on some notes, especially from high G to C.
There's no suitable position for the mp (I have a Gottsu HS8), it goes too far and drops down.
The previous owner had built a small cylinder interposed between the neck and the sax, which elongates the sax and makes it playable decently, with a very small timbre change. Only the high A is a bit sharp but it can be compensated, like other notes slightly sharp or flat. The neck hasn't been shortened, there are non dents or dings, all keys close smoothly and sound it's great.
Without the cylinder it can be played in tune (more than a quarter tone sharp).
So, the question is: I've been unlucky? Or it's something related to the mp chamber? HS8 has a big round chamber, not small.
I have to use that cheating cylinder and accept the unstable tuning for sound's sake?
Thanks!

 

[Mike T]

Some mouthpieces, because of incorrect chamber volume, can throw a 12m right out of tune. Don't mess around any further — dump the mouthpiece you have, and the neck extension too, and get a compatible mouthpiece.

There are quite a few mouthpieces which are eminently suitable for a 12M. Otto Link STMs and old Berg Larsens are among them. My personal favourite is a PPT, made by Edward Pillinger for Pete Thomas and available for around US$270.00 from Pete Thomas's "Taming the Saxophone" website. All profit from these mouthpieces goes to charity. You'll find them here:

https://tamingthesaxophone.com/product/ppt-baritone-mouthpiece

 

[supervinx]

Bari mpc should be tried before buying, and I can't try them here without purchasing... so I must think twice before buying...

 

[Pete Thomas]

Some mouthpieces, because of incorrect chamber volume, can throw a 12m right out of tune. Don't mess around any further — dump the mouthpiece you have, and the neck extension too, and get a compatible mouthpiece.

There are quite a few mouthpieces which are eminently suitable for a 12M. Otto Link STMs and old Berg Larsens are among them. My personal favourite is a PPT, made by Edward Pillinger for Pete Thomas and available for around US$270.00 from Pete Thomas's "Taming the Saxophone" website. All profit from these mouthpieces goes to charity. You'll find them here:

https://tamingthesaxophone.com/product/ppt-baritone-mouthpiece

Thanks for the mention Mike.

The PPT baritone works well on a 12M Naked Lady or later Mexiconns. I have n't tested on a New Wonder II (super vinx, I have your message and will reply to that separately)

I have an anecdote though (as always)

I used to play a 12M, but stopped playing baritone for a couple of years. I picked it up again and found that I wasn't that very happy with the intonation. Then I was using a Lawton mouthpiece. So I bought a MKVI and decided to sell the 12M.

The buyer came round and asked me to demonstrate it as they didn't play, so I picked up the mouthpiece that was in the case and came with the horn, put it on and voila! perfectly in tune, great sound. That is the mouthpiece I model the PPT baritone on - it's an Otto Link Slant Signature.

The PPT Signature is also slanted, just in case that is where the real magic lies

 

[supervinx]

Hi! Sorry for the late.
I received the PPT Bari mp. I tried it quickly, even if the reed wasn't the perfect fit for it.
I can play the NWII without neck extension. The mp must be inserted almost in the same position of the Gottsu mp with the neck extension. And when I tried it there were about 30 C / 80 F
It plays reasonably in tune, some notes have to be compensated, but I'm used to the sopranino, so it isn't a great issue.
So, it works!
May be it's related to a bigger camera, to mp greater lenght, may be to some other things.
Sound seems good, but I'll tell you later, after some work. I have to "tame" it helping the right harmonics to come out.
Every mp has it's own story, it needs some days to obtain the best from it.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Hi! Sorry for the late.
I received the PPT Bari mp. I tried it quickly, even if the reed wasn't the perfect fit for it.
I can play the NWII without neck extension. The mp must be inserted almost in the same position of the Gottsu mp with the neck extension. And when I tried it there were about 30 C / 80 F
It plays reasonably in tune, some notes have to be compensated, but I'm used to the sopranino, so it isn't a great issue.
So, it works!

Well that's good news and doesn't surprise me as the PPT baritone is known to work well on a 10M, if it's also good on a New Wonder then it shows my initial concept of finding a modernish sounding mouthpiece with good intonation on vintage instruments is working. Previous to that I either would have to use tubby sounding pickle barrel type or else put up with intonation issues.

Yes, of course some notes may need com[-ensation, but if it's decent overall plus the advantage of a good sound, then Bob's your Uncle.

 

[turf3]

Well that's good news and doesn't surprise me as the PPT baritone is known to work well on a 10M, if it's also good on a New Wonder then it shows my initial concept of finding a modernish sounding mouthpiece with good intonation on vintage instruments is working. Previous to that I either would have to use tubby sounding pickle barrel type or else put up with intonation issues.

Yes, of course some notes may need com[-ensation, but if it's decent overall plus the advantage of a good sound, then Bob's your Uncle.

There are some other benefits from being able to push in the MP for a shorter total scale length:

Better altissimo response
Elimination of the sharp middle E and F
Reduction of squeaks

The main point is that saxophones are designed based on a certain kind of mouthpiece. If you deviate greatly from that, you are likely to find issues. I have my suspicions that - due to low production volume - the basic design of the bore and tone hole placement of the Conn baritone may have been the same from the early 1910s on - although the high E and F were added, the octave vent on the neck was relocated, and the bell keys were eventually moved around to the right side of the bell. On the other hand, mouthpiece designs from 1915 to 2009 changed a lot.