[B Flat]

Just wondering when Conn started and stopped putting the Key guards on palm key tone holes.
I’ve had a few 12M’s now and none have had the guards.
A 1936 (No guards), a 1933 (no guards), and a 1969-70 (also no guards).
It’s possible that they could have been removed o the earlier ones but there is no evidence of that.
And the later one has its original lacquer and shows no signs of removal either.
I’ve seen others of similar vintages with those keyguards both on YouTube and other online sites.
Does your have them?
If so what year is your 12m.
Nick.

Just noticed that Gary Smulyan’s 36 12M has them.

 

[cymru97]

My 1950 has them.

 

[B Flat]

My 1950 has them.

Good to know, thank you.

Does anyone have a later 12m with palm key guards?
I'm fairly confident that the earlier (pre 35) horns don't.

 

[Mike T]

My 1964 12M has these guards. My 1936 one doesn't.

 

[B Flat]

My 1964 12M has these guards. My 1936 one doesn't.

Thanks Mike
It's starting to look like they stopped with the guards around the Mexiconn era?
This would make sense in regard to the cheapening of production costs.

Anyone have a 1940's 12m with palm key guards?

 

[saxy82291]

Nice to see this thread, I was wondering the same thing. My 1933 12m does not have guards but I have seen pictures of some from that year with them.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[14470]

Anyone have a 1940's 12m with palm key guards?

The one is the Saxquest museum from 1945 linked below has them.

https://www.saxquest.com/museum

If you look up other vintage sax retailers and present/past horns, I would expect you to find more examples.

 

[B Flat]

The one is the Saxquest museum from 1945 linked below has them.

https://www.saxquest.com/museum

If you look up other vintage sax retailers and present/past horns, I would expect you to find more examples.

Thanks.
Yes I have looked at both dealers and sold items online and have found examples with similar serials both with and without guards.
This is why I'm a little confused.
Perhaps there wasn't a particular timeline in which they were produced with guards or maybe it was an option.

 

[B Flat]

Nice to see this thread, I was wondering the same thing. My 1933 12m does not have guards but I have seen pictures of some from that year with them.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Thanks.
My 33 also doesn't have them nor do the two on Matt Stohrer's YouTube video.
I wonder if some added them afterwards?

 

[saxoclese]

The one is the Saxquest museum from 1945 linked below has them.

https://www.saxquest.com/museum

If you look up other vintage sax retailers and present/past horns, I would expect you to find more examples.

Thanks. I was trying to picture guards next to the palm key touches. Now I see they are palm key key cup guards which makes more sense.

 

[turf3]

My 12M from '45 has them for E and F.

 

[B Flat]

My 12M from '45 has them for E and F.

Great thanks
The earliest I've seen them was on a 34 model.
Technically though, like my 33 model these horns are generally referred to as transitional rather than 12m's.
So some may have the guards whilst others don't as this was a period of change in the Baritone line of horns.

 

[B Flat]

Thanks. I was trying to picture guards next to the palm key touches. Now I see they are palm key key cup guards which makes more sense.

Sorry I should have said key cup guards rather than key guards, but I thought it was self evident what was meant.

 

[Jerry K.]

My 1960 had guards.

 

[B Flat]

My 1960 had guards.

View attachment 258310

View attachment 258312

Great to know, thank you.
It's starting to look like the key guards were evident from about 1933/34 to into the 1960's.
Possibly stopped with the Mexiconn period and didn't continue afterwards into the Armstrong era either.
We're they on the 11m's also?

 

[DarrellMass]

I've been wondering what the heck are they talking about? The trill key guards!

 

[B Flat]

I think palm key guards is pretty descriptive.
I don’t see where the confusion is.

 

[cymru97]

I think palm key guards is pretty descriptive.
I don';t see where the confusion is.

You're description is good. I figure a lot of people just haven't ever seen them on a horn so it's harder to comprehend.

Good question on the 11M. I may have to do some searching later.

 

[turf3]

I think it's pretty dangerous not to have guards around those keys. Very prone to getting bumped, especially going in and out of the case. I have seen more than one horn with added guards up there (in fact my bass sax has at least one guard there that's been added). I would suggest adding them to any horn that doesn't have them, unless it's a truly like-new collector item.

 

[14470]

I think palm key guards is pretty descriptive.

Perhaps "quality wrought palm key guards" would have been more suitable for you.