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Discussion Starter #1
My 1936 vintage 12M plays VERY sharp on E2:treble::space4:. So bad that I can't compensate for it. I have tried the following mouthpieces that haven't helped. Selmer CS80 D, Rico Graftonite B7, Otto Link STM 7, Yamaha 5C and a clear red Runyon that I don't remember what the facing was. The mouthpiece that has worked the best is a Conn Standard Steelay 3, the original that came with the horn. The Conn mouthpiece makes it good enough that I am able to play in tune with the group.

I have taken the sax to the shop and they have said everything is fine mechanically with it. The tech played and it did the same thing, sharp E2, he was using a Selmer CS80 also.

Does anyone have any experience with this problem and/or suggestions?
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
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It's most likely the mouthpiece. Many of the older 12M Conns will need a larger-chambered mouthpiece to play in tune. Several of the mouthpiece guys here on SOTW sell modified mouthpieces for this. Also, if you use the search function you may be able to find several threads that discuss mouthpieces that work well on the 12M.
 

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I've played a 12M for 20+ years now and never had a "one note" issue that mouthpiece choice would solve. If it's only one note, E2, I would think pad heights were too open. (The most likely suspect would be the D pad, possibly in combination with the C and bell note pads.)

The usual problem with too small a chamber on bari is squawky response on the low end, with volume control difficult to get, and progressively sharper notes above A2.

In any case, the metal Link is a conservative chamber design and shouldn't mess up the intonation as long as you have some cork showing.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
D and C pad/key heights have been adjusted and the problem has continued. The D key has been lowered to just before it gets stuffy. With the smaller chambered mouthpieces (compared to the Conn) if I close the low Bb key while playing E2 it will come into a managable pitch. The other notes, F and D aren't spot on but I am able to keep them in tune with embouchure changes.

I have tried the search function and I get so many hits that I can never find what I'm looking for.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Tech/Forum Contributor 2007
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check the key height on the low C, if it is opening way too much, it can really effect the right hand venting, i see a lot of horns there that is set way too high.

same for the D, but i would hope that all fo the right hand keys are more or less the same height.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I also lowered the C key using a longer felt bumper and it didn't really have much effect. The last time I took the horn to a tech he opened this key back up. ?????? I'm getting really confused with this.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
OK, Figured out the "advanced search" function and found some threads dealing with mouthpiece selection and the OL STM 7 should have worked.
 

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Hello Noj,
Did you manage to solve your sharp E2 problem? I had the same issue with my Conn 12M too and I solved it by putting blu tak inside the bore of the pigtail between high E anf F. ( I had sharp F2 and E2). You have to remove the 2 keys to get access to that area and play around with the volume of blu tak whilst testing with the tuner. To expedite things, I use a coin and blu tak to temporarily seal those holes whist testing.
Once you solve that, you may find G2 a little stuffy but still in tune. Hey, there's no free lunch. I wonder if opening up the body octave pip would help?

David
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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Does anyone have any experience with this problem and/or suggestions?
Yes, I've had the exact same problem. Unlike the 10M tenore, the 12M is very picky about mouthpieces

Several of the mouthpiece guys here on SOTW sell modified mouthpieces for this.
Otto Link slant sig is one solution, a PPT (7) is another.
 

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You can take a stock Yani and send it to Eric Greiffenhagen at the Mouthpieceguys and your 12M will have zippo intonation problems. It won't cost you much. Interesting that the PPT works as well. That is pretty tempting.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I solved the intonation problems by buying a Vito low A bari (Yanagisawa stencil). I still have the 12M and I will try some of the fixes suggested. Thanks for the help.
 

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+1 on Erik Greiffenhagen. I sent him a new Otto Link TE & he did a double chamber on it which addressed all the intonation problems on my New Wonder I bari....
 
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