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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Everyone,
I recently bought a vintage woodwind company mouthpiece with a double chamber that makes my Conn so in tune it's crazy. I love it. I was playing today in my big band and my instructor stopped the band in a middle of a song to ask me where my sound was today. I, of course, immediately switched back to my SR Tech mouthpiece in my case. It was no where near as in tune as my Woodwind company, but at least I didn't have to deal with the embarrassment of playing to quiet. So, my question: How do I make a compromise? Do I go open the tip of the woodwind company to get it to play louder? Any suggestions on another mouthpiece that can do this for me?
 

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Harry Carney played a WW&Co on a Conn baritone. I have one as well. Those large chamber pieces are the best, as far as intonation, with the old Conns. If you need more volume you may need it to be opened up to a .105 or .110. It should work well.
 

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Vintage Link HR would be a good choice but may cost you more than the horn. Some people tend to like the Bergs so that may be a start or a Morgan. When I had some baris, I got a Morgan Protone which was good on my vintage horns. I think I paid about $50 (still have it).
 

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While I was waiting for Phil to finish my bari mpc, I was using a Link STM. It wasn't perfect, but it got the job done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Does anyone have any history with the brendan tibbs bari mouthpieces? They are suppose to play great on conns, but I have no idea on the terms of sound and volume. any comments? If not, just continue to add comments of other MPCs.
 

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Welcome to my pain. It has been my experience with my Conn that you have to decide where between intonation and projection you want to sit. I have tried large chambered, open mouthpieces (a Dick Paladino I particularly like). Yes, the sound and intonation are nice, and would be perfect in a smaller ensemble. Playing the bari chair in a modern big band, though, you need a little extra in reserve that you can't get from that type of mouthpiece. A good halfway I found was a Runyon Custom, with the spoiler or a little dental wax to build up the baffle. But the increased baffle is what makes the intonation get squirrely. Further towards the projection side, I tried to get a Ponzol M1 .120 to work for me for the longest time. I'm in love with the sound of it, but the intonation was far too irregular to be useful with this horn. On a hunch, I picked up the same mouthpiece, but a little more closed (.110). This made a big enough difference in control over intonation, with just a small compromise in sound, that I have settled on it (by god I mean it, this time). Of course, the more time I spend with it, the more the intonation is locking in, though I spent lots of time with that .120, and couldn't make it happen. I think this is the key, you want to avoid extremes when looking for a mouthpiece for a 12m.
 

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If the problem is simply that you can't pull your mpc of choice far enough off the neck cork to stay in tune, have a tech apply an extension to your mpc shank. I have a removable one on my Barone. I can post pictures tomorrow if you want to see what I mean.
 

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The problem is that modern mouthpieces make your intonation a bit more "elastic." Subtle tuning differences between notes get exaggerated.
 

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If the problem is simply that you can't pull your mpc of choice far enough off the neck cork to stay in tune, have a tech apply an extension to your mpc shank. I have a removable one on my Barone. I can post pictures tomorrow if you want to see what I mean.
bari_mpcs_on_necks (Small).jpg barone_bari_with_extension_off (Small).JPG
So I have two necks for my 12M. One is original and the other is a Gloger. I have my Morgan double-chamber bari/bass mpc on the original, and the Barone modified HR Link on the Gloger. In order to play in tune, the Barone needs an extension - which is easily removed for use on another horn.

barone_jazz_with_extension (Small).jpg barone_jazz_with_extension_off (Small).jpg
I also have a picture of one of my Barone Jazz tenor mpcs with an extension.
 

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Hey Everyone,
I recently bought a vintage woodwind company mouthpiece with a double chamber that makes my Conn so in tune it's crazy. I love it. I was playing today in my big band and my instructor stopped the band in a middle of a song to ask me where my sound was today. I, of course, immediately switched back to my SR Tech mouthpiece in my case. It was no where near as in tune as my Woodwind company, but at least I didn't have to deal with the embarrassment of playing to quiet. So, my question: How do I make a compromise? Do I go open the tip of the woodwind company to get it to play louder? Any suggestions on another mouthpiece that can do this for me?
Despite what Andy Farber says, I would say that if you work on your playing with a Woodwind mouthpiece you can get it to project. Don't start ruining a vintage mouthpiece by opening it up and trying to make it into a mouthpiece that it isn't.

Is yours a B4, B5 or B6? Has it got the slightly squarer chamber or the more cavernous round one (whose diameter is larger than the bore of the neck)?

Here is a clip with me playing a Harry Carney feature with my band. I'm not playing into the vocal microphone that is near me, I'm just standing at the front. I think I'm projecting plenty (although I think I'm playing flat and should have pushed on a bit):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72WdgRHj7Kg

That's an unmodified Woodwind Co B5 mouthpiece.

The problem is, I just can't get anything like a decent sound on the few occasions I've tried playing a modern baritone mouthpiece, which leads me to the conclusion that I have adapted my playing specifically for the Woodwind mouthpieces. That may or may not be a bad thing, but I don't care, and I have chosen my alto and tenor mouthpieces to suit my playing technique.

Michael
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Despite what Andy Farber says, I would say that if you work on your playing with a Woodwind mouthpiece you can get it to project. Don't start ruining a vintage mouthpiece by opening it up and trying to make it into a mouthpiece that it isn't.

Is yours a B4, B5 or B6? Has it got the slightly squarer chamber or the more cavernous round one (whose diameter is larger than the bore of the neck)?

Here is a clip with me playing a Harry Carney feature with my band. I'm not playing into the vocal microphone that is near me, I'm just standing at the front. I think I'm projecting plenty (although I think I'm playing flat and should have pushed on a bit):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72WdgRHj7Kg

That's an unmodified Woodwind Co B5 mouthpiece.

The problem is, I just can't get anything like a decent sound on the few occasions I've tried playing a modern baritone mouthpiece, which leads me to the conclusion that I have adapted my playing specifically for the Woodwind mouthpieces. That may or may not be a bad thing, but I don't care, and I have chosen my alto and tenor mouthpieces to suit my playing technique.

Michael
Thanks for the advice MTKilpatrick. I'll keep working at the mouthpiece. It's a B4 with a round chamber (yes, the diameter is larger than the bore of the neck). What are you currently playing on? When you first started playing on the woodwind how did you go about changing your embouchure and what were the effects?
 

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Here is a clip with me playing a Harry Carney feature with my band. I'm not playing into the vocal microphone that is near me, I'm just standing at the front. I think I'm projecting plenty (although I think I'm playing flat and should have pushed on a bit):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72WdgRHj7Kg

That's an unmodified Woodwind Co B5 mouthpiece.

The problem is, I just can't get anything like a decent sound on the few occasions I've tried playing a modern baritone mouthpiece, which leads me to the conclusion that I have adapted my playing specifically for the Woodwind mouthpieces. That may or may not be a bad thing, but I don't care, and I have chosen my alto and tenor mouthpieces to suit my playing technique.

Michael
Very nice Michael and very authentic.

That's enough to persuade me to get my 12M out again and try with the Woodwind mouthpiece I bought - it's a Sparkle-aire B5 but it must have been refaced, and is marked BP .106" beside the table.

I have always struggled with the intonation on the 12M, even though I really like the sound and the light weight compared with my SA80II.

Rhys
 

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Thanks for the advice MTKilpatrick. I'll keep working at the mouthpiece. It's a B4 with a round chamber (yes, the diameter is larger than the bore of the neck). What are you currently playing on? When you first started playing on the woodwind how did you go about changing your embouchure and what were the effects?

I've got a whole pile of Woodwind Co mouthpieces! I suppose you could say that I'm one of those people who is constantly trying different mouthpieces in the vain quest for improvement - and some people say this isn't a good thing.

Since I always played on mouthpieces of this type I didn't "change my embouchure" from anything else, and to be honest I've not got much idea how it compares to the playing styles of other people using modern slim-line mouthpieces! As I said, I've just tried the odd modern mouthpiece once in a while and found pretty instantly that I can't get any richness of tone out of it at all, and just sound like someone blowing down a plastic drainpipe!

There are several different chamber sizes of Woodwind. Some are a little squarer. I have a B4 and B4* of the sort you are describing with the cavernous chamber, but I find that a B5 projects better. I've got several B5s with the larger chamber and the squarer chamber - the rounder is, I think, a little bit richer in tone. I'm hoping one day to find a B5* to see if there is much difference. The B4 and B4* are only marginally different from each other.

I think you may find the B4 too stuffy unless you've found a cut of reed that gives the power you need with such a close-tipped mouthpiece. I find that there is a very fine line between the support for the embouchure and something which is too hard and stuffy.

I've got some of the French-made Woodwind Sparkle-air mouthpieces and these are quite different. They have much narrower chambers and I can't get any sort of decent sound at all, nor find a reed that feels comfortable on them.

On that YouTube video I'm using the squarer chamber B5 because my wife dropped my favourite piece and chipped part of the tip off a year ago - but recently I glued it together very carefully and it's playable again!

I have a couple of B6 and B6* with both the squarer and larger chambers, but I just find them far too open and I can't get a reed/mouthpiece combination that I feel comfortable with, mainly because I spent most of the early years learning to play on the B4/B4*.

With the B4 or B4* I used to use Rico Royal number 4s. With the B5 I currently use Rico or Rico Royal 3.5 and sometimes the Rico Jazz Select unfiled 3M. I've never been entirely convinced that either of these are best choice - I simply don't know if a different cut of reed might be better. Any number in a box may be far too hard and stuffy, and some of them don't seem to support my embouchure in the middle & upper register at all, which is very important for the Carney-like sound I'm trying to get.

Recently I've been trying to improve my embouchure further by being much firmer with the lip muscles but opening my jaw and throat more (at least, that's what I *think* I'm doing) and the results seem good. I've also found that if I practise the alto saxophone with a double-lipped embouchure I can get better intonation and don't cause so much disruption to my baritone playing when swapping between instruments!

Michael
 

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Another choice might be to get one of Erik Greiffenhagen's Double Chamber Vandoren V5 pieces. You can learn a great deal about them from a search of SOTW Forum. Erik plays a 12M and I use one on my "The Martin".
 
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