[Lester71]

Folks,

I'm looking at a local 1940 10M. The body seems to be in really good condition however it appears to have been relacquered at some point in its life. What is perplexing me is the color of the lacquer (see attached pics). It appears to have some runs, or is this possibly not lacquer and some sort of epoxy? I've seen some horns online where some folks have done some bizarre stuff to them and want to make sure I'm not buying a dud.

thanks!

 

[Brian Albee]

That looks like a total dud, if you could send me the guys number I'll make sure it is safely disposed of.

 

[Dr G]

How does it play?

Have you any pictures of the “runs”?

 

[pontius]

I don't see anything alarming but those pictures don't say much.

 

[Sacks Of Phones]

What exactly are we looking at in the pictures? Like the Dr. asked, how does it play?

 

[Brian Albee]

Believe it or not, runs happen in factory finishes also. Here are runs on a 6m I'm working on now:

 

[JayeLID]

All I see is a hue which would suggest original lacq, some spotting, and reflections off of the horn....

 

[livingthedream]

want to make sure I'm not buying a dud.

these are never duds,even when relacquered.
as others say,can't see much with those photos,what about showing closeups of the serial# area,bell engraving edges and the runs you are talking about.
i have seen a few 10M's like yourself and the color can be different on original horns,especially in and after WW2.

 

[PigSquealer]

It appears there is some staining on the bell. If that has lacquer over it I would say it’s been touched up at the very least. At 78 years of age I would be more concerned about the playing condition. You can also look at the engraving with a magnifying glass. If the edges of the cuts are not real good and crisp it’s more than likely been polished and resprayed.

 

[Lester71]

How does it play?

Have you any pictures of the “runs”?

It is a little hard to see in the pics but if you click on the thumbnail to enlarge the pic, in front of the low C tone hole you can see some lines that run vertical towards the C# hole. The lacquer is very thick in that location, it almost looks a little creamy to me like the art projects my 3 year old brings home from school with dried Elmer’s glue with sparkles in it. The shop claims it’s the original lacquer however I pointed out to the clerk that while the engraving is well defined, it’s completely covered over in lacquer and there is no tarnish at all on the engraving which is where it usually starts on the 10M.

Physically it’s in great shape and sounds pretty good, although if I pick it up I’ll probably have my friend overhaul it as the pads are showing their age.

On another note I looked at and played another 10M for sale locally last week. An older gentleman was selling it. He got it off a friend who he said was some well known repair guy in NYC 30 years ago. The horn was in rough shape, really, really rough. It looked like a 70 year old village bicycle that was left out in a hurricane. I was surprised, well actually stunned at how well it played, especially given the age of the pads. Looking at the horn it was obvious that it had been resurrected from the dead by the repair guy. The bow itself probably had 15 dents worked out of it. Ultimately I decided to seek out a cleaner horn but I may just throw him an offer and keep it around for the kids.

 

[livingthedream]

It is a little hard to see in the pics

as others say,can't see much with those photos,what about showing closeups of the serial# area,bell engraving edges and the runs you are talking about.

 

[Mike T]

From what can be seen in the photos, the main problem is, it's got green felts. They should be red.


Are you buying a horn to play — or an investment to put in a glass display case ?

 

[Brian Albee]

Hi Lester71,

Just out of curiosity, did you buy the nice 10m you posted the pics of? Also, please let us all live it vicariously through your telling. That looks like a very nice prewar horn, I'd be super excited to get for the right price.

 

[Brian Albee]

PS not to start a flame war, but IMHO that 10M is original, right color, tint, no damage I can see lacquered over in the pics. Not all horns were factory engraved THROUGH the lacquer I spite of popular mythology/misinformation. It's common to see transitional/early M series with original factory lacquer over the engraving. Plus people trip waaay to hard about this in my opinion.

 

[xax]

...it's got green felts. They should be red...

Is that true?

 

[livingthedream]

mike probably likes red felts better than green!

 

[Bjroosevelt]

If this is a local horn, I am assuming you have played it. Is this correct? How did it sound on you?

 

[DarrellMass]

Don't know about your horn, but my '61 10M has a very pale ****-colored lacquer, that makes my '66 King look like a million bucks, by comparison. Of course, looks had absolutely nothing to do with my buying the M.

 

[Lester71]

I have not bought it yet, a 1945 Martin tenor followed me home this week and I’ve been distracted deciding what I want to do to it as far as pads and resonators.

I’m still not convinced on this 10Ms lacquer situation, the horn is physically in excellent shape but the pads are 5/10 and for the price they are asking it should be ready to roll. It’s the typical situation where “our in house tech went over it and it’s ready to play”. Meaning the part time high school kid who plays Tuba dusted it off and deordorized the case. ;-)

The good news I have a bunch of tracking stock from my employer that I sort of forgot about that we are being forced to sell, so I might buy a few horns, specifically a tenor SBA and maybe this 10M.

If I buy it, I’ll post better pics.

 

[Kritavi]

I've owned a lot of 10m's. I couldn't say conclusively from those pictures but it sure looks refinished to me.