[lutemann]

One of the pieces of advice that I have received on this list concerning holding the alto sax is that the neck should go directly into the mouth at a right angle and that a failure to do this might distort my embouchure. This seems to be true since most videos that I look at demonstrate exactly what has been suggested. Some do not. For example a few jazzers and classical players play like I do, i.e. sort like a clarinet. I'm going to have a lesson soon with a professional alto player who also plays bassoon in the symphony orchestra. Some of my doubts may be ironed out here. I'll get back to you.

One thing bothers me, however. The alto sax is probably (next to the flute?) the most universally played instrument on the planet. And yet there is almost no information out there on how to hold the instrument. I've checked through all my books and extensively through youtube. For example, I used to teach classical guitar and below is the address of my youtube video on how to hold the guitar. I would have you note the detail - and every detail is important! For the alto, no one ever says (except on this list) that the MP should go directly into he mouth at a right angle and even on this list no one seems to know exactly how to make it go that way. I discovered for myself after watching many sax players that it is fairly easy to get this position sitting down by bringing the sax under the right arm and adjusting the MP accordingly. For standing up this position is only possible (as far as I can tell) if the sax is held about a foot from the body. This position tires my arm and causes great stress to my thumb, not mention that it is less stable than the standard book explanation (sax rest on your stomach). So what gives; am I looking at the wrong books and the wrong sax players?

Here's how I used to teach positioning the classical guitar for those of you who are interested in what positioning explanation should be like.

 

[JohnGalt]

On alto? Tenor maybe, but most alto players have a slightly upward angle into the mouth. To have the horn at a right angle (neck going straight into mouth) you will have to hold the sax way out from your body with your hands. This is impractical, the weight of the sax should be held with the strap, leaving your hands free to have a light touch on the pearls.

 

[lutemann]

On alto? Tenor maybe, but most alto players have a slightly upward angle into the mouth. To have the horn at a right angle (neck going straight into mouth) you will have to hold the sax way out from your body with your hands. This is impractical, the weight of the sax should be held with the strap, leaving your hands free to have a light touch on the pearls.

Go on youtube and watch 20 alto players and you will see 18 guys holding the alto a foot from their bodies. I don't know if they think it looks better or it helps their embouchure.

 

[Dr G]

Go on youtube and watch 20 alto players and you will see 18 guys holding the alto a foot from their bodies. I don't know if they think it looks better or it helps their embouchure.

A third possibility (and true for me when I play the smaller horns) is one of finding the most correct ergonomic position for the wrists and hands.

 

[Dave Dolson]

Me thinks you worry too much about this. From what I heard and saw in your videos, you were doing fine - more time, experience, and confidence will help you improve, not constant worrying about how you hold the thing. DAVE

 

[Pete Thomas]

When I play, the alto mouthpiece is about 80 degrees and the bow a couple of inches out from my body.

Larry Teal suggests 45 degrees as opposed to 30 for clarinet), but the illustration is his book look more like 60 to 80 degrees.

Some older books show a clarinet like saxophone angle of almost 30 degrees, and this would be fine if you really want to use a more clarinet like embouchure, which I wouldn't.

I think the natural angle of the alto neck is a good guideline: if someone has an angle of 70 or 80 degrees I think there should be little to worry about in that respect.

 

[lutemann]

Me thinks you worry too much about this. From what I heard and saw in your videos, you were doing fine - more time, experience, and confidence will help you improve, not constant worrying about how you hold the thing. DAVE

How you hold a musical instrument is extremely important. I'm really surprised at the lack of information.

 

[Mark Fleming]

I don't have much trouble with the alto because it is small and easy to move around but (to threadjack for a moment) the tenor gives me trouble. I adjust the alto to a comfortable position and find that I can stand or sit with the same adjustment. With the tenor, I find that I'm not ever really comfortable in a sitting position with it between my legs or at my side and what's best for one position isn't for the other. I stand when I practice unless it's a really long practice, then I adjust the horn as best I can for a sitting position. Since the horn is towards the side when I stand, holding to the side when I sit works best, but not perfect.

One instructor has commented that my tenor seating position looks uncomfortable, and it is. But I can't very well stand while the three others in the quartet are seated. I've also been surprised by the lack on info on how to hold the horn when seated. I've never seen a big band situation where the sax player first adjusts the horn before taking a standing solo, but maybe I've missed it.

Mark

 

[Dr G]

Mark, have you tried sitting on the front edge of the chair rather than sitting all the way back in the seat?

 

[hakukani]

Sax hangs from strap. Turn neck to be perendicular to mouth) Bring hands to sax--no need to change the position. Adjust neckstrap so that mouth and sax are at the same level. Works for me.

(BTW: This was how my first teacher, John Sampen, taught me to hold the sax. He studied with Hemke)

 

[Steve Stockham]

That's just about what I was going to say as I play the alto in front. I play the C Melody in front while seated and slightly to the side while standing. I play the tenor to the side while seated. When I'm standing I will play it both in front and to the side depending upon my mood. I always play the bari to the side!

 

[hakukani]

That's just about what I was going to say as I play the alto in front. I play the C Melody in front while seated and slightly to the side while standing. I play the tenor to the side while seated. When I'm standing I will play it both in front and to the side depending upon my mood. I always play the bari to the side!

I prefer tenor (and bari) to the side while seated. I prefer the tenor neck to be adjusted slightly to the right if I'm going to spend most of my time seated.

 

[bandmommy]

Many things can and will dictate how you 'wear' your alto. An over or under bite can make a difference on the angle in which the horn enters your mouth.
I tend to wear to the right with the bell slightly angled back towards my hip.
It's probably 'wrong' but it works very well for me.

 

[dubrosa22]

Larry Teal's book has a chapter on this and good photos/diagrams too.

 

[Dave Dolson]

lutemann: What lack of information? I think all of the posters in all of your threads have been exceptionally patient with you - and everyone has tried to make suggestions (upon suggestions upon suggestions . . .).

There has been TONS of good advice posted in this thread and other threads you've started about this subject (YOU holding YOUR alto). In addition, there have been books written about this subject.

Many have weighed in here on SOTW and I know of at least one who sent a PM (ME!). You don't have to tell ME how important proper positioning is, but I suspect you still don't have a clue. If you think how to hold the thing is SO important that you need to continue to ask about it, post videos about it, and STILL go on and on about it after everyone has responded several times, than please continue to worry about it.

But MY advice is to give it a break - play the thing and don't worry so much about it. If one hadn't watched your videos, it would be easy to think you are a youngster who can't get a sound out of a horn because his positioning is so bad. I know that isn't the case. Sorry if it seems that I went off on you, but your last post to me tripped my trigger. DAVE

 

[CraigAB]

I think I may understand Luteman.....a little bit. He is a maths teacher. And in maths, there is always going to be a correct way to do things.

Whereas in music there's not really a right or wrong answer. It would be like everyone having a different answer to a maths problem. Everyone is right, no one is wrong.

I think Its more of a quest. For example, I'm not quite happy with this or that, so how do I adjust it, to get where I want to go in sound etc? It's very much down to the individual person.

If everything had a solution that was layed out in steps then everyone would be the same.

There are general rules, but that is about it. For example there are guys that play with the mouthpiece stuck to one side of there mouth, is it right? well maybe not ideal, BUT it works for them.

I don't mean to be rude or anything, but I think someone here once said "Sit down shutup and play the damn music".

So relax, enjoy the saxophone journey and enjoy yourself.

Hope this helps.

 

[JayeLID]

How you hold a musical instrument is extremely important. I'm really surprised at the lack of information.

Dave's point is...this is your 2nd thread about the same subject....there's probably a lack of info because it is personal preference. Like the other thread...I think this one is also over-thinking the entire subject.

It also presupposes that there is an optimal position/angle/etc. If anyone claims this to be so...I find that utterly ridiculous, quite honestly....

Most of the advice you've gotten so far is basically just folks stating "this is how I was taught".

I don't think the advice is going to get any more concrete than this...and I do not think you are gonna get an answer which most folks are gonna say "yeah, that's the ticket !" about....

....because....there's nothing really written in stone.

Necks have different angles...players tilt their heads differently...mouth anatomies vary. Some folks take in tons of m'piece...others don't.
Positioning the horn body in relationship to your body will alter the feel and ergos. You need to find a personal balance.

You certainly wanna find a form which doesn't choke the sound or create a Clarinet-esque embouchure (Pete).....w/o making the horn feel funny in your hands (Dr.G).

But nobody here can give you a definitive answer to this question. I think that as Dave's point.

 

[martinm5862]

A third possibility (and true for me when I play the smaller horns) is one of finding the most correct ergonomic position for the wrists and hands.

Another important possibility is physical. A guy I grew up with and studied with the same teachers had a severe underbite and played with the horn way out in front. The neck actually angled slightly up. It really worked for him. I have an overbite and play close to my body particularly on clarinet. His underbite meant he could hold the horn out and still had enough reed in his mouth. I couldn't play that way.

 

[belliott]

lutemann: What lack of information? I think all of the posters in all of your threads have been exceptionally patient with you - and everyone has tried to make suggestions (upon suggestions upon suggestions . . .).

There has been TONS of good advice posted in this thread and other threads you've started about this subject (YOU holding YOUR alto). In addition, there have been books written about this subject.

Many have weighed in here on SOTW and I know of at least one who sent a PM (ME!). You don't have to tell ME how important proper positioning is, but I suspect you still don't have a clue. If you think how to hold the thing is SO important that you need to continue to ask about it, post videos about it, and STILL go on and on about it after everyone has responded several times, than please continue to worry about it.

But MY advice is to give it a break - play the thing and don't worry so much about it. DAVE

+1 This is gospel!!!!

 

[JohnGalt]

You seem to be projecting waaaaay too much importance onto this subject. It is important top have good posture and proper embouchure formation, perhaps a philosophy organic to these ends is what your looking for rather than chasing some wind-mill-esque definition.

"the neck should go directly into the mouth at a right angle "

I can't buy that as an axiom of proper technique.
Can be done though, btw. Dizzy puffed his cheeks too.