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Discussion Starter #1
Hi
I'm just trying to figure out exaclt how John Coltrane did one of his special effects- You can hear it being played on a lot of Coltrane's pieces, but an example of it can be found on -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6WwuxqXPOg

.....At around two-and-a-half minutes into the track. It's his burbling effect - a repeated kind of rapid arpeggio around the C3 region, involving around three notes, round and round, but I think it might possibly involve the bell keys too, so the C3 is actually an overblown C1. Has anybody managed to reproduce this. I only ask, of course, purely from a technical interest. I would never dream of actually playing such a thing, just like I would never dream of playing the Texas Wobble........ so long as we make that perfectly clear.......
Richard
 

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Forum Contributor 2011, SOTW's pedantic pet rodent
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hi. I'm not sure i could answer your question anyhow (!) but for those that can it might be useful to have an accurate timing for the effect you're talking about on the youtube track. 2'30'' is mid piano solo, I think..
 

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Discussion Starter #3
WHOOPS ! - What made me write that timing ? - It starts at around 5:10 and goes on until about 5:22, then he starts doing other stuff, but occasionally you can hear this effect coming in, mixed in the the other effects. But between 5:10 and 5:22 you can hear this. There are better quality examples on some of his other tracks in my disc collection, but I think this demonstrates this reasonably well. I have tried reproducing it with "drumming" the LH fingers on 1,2 and 3 but there's something else going on too. Jujst using 1,2 and 3 sounds too clean. I think it's something with the bell keys and overtones.
 

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That would be using some form of "phase shifting" with alternate fingering and or detuning notes. Probably the easiest of these is while fingering high A, depress F, E, and/or D (try different combinations for your liking). Alternate between straight A and the detuned A. Throw a C or C# (or whatever not you want) in. Now play in triplets A, detuned A, C and repeat (or rinse and repeat). Now try that with every note and all the alternate fingerings/detuned notes you can muster. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you kind Sir ! - Just tried that, it's pretty much the sound we were hearing on that track !
All grist to my mill at the next gig....... but.... OH, I promised never to use such a thing, didn't I ?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
?
 

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And7barton said:
I would never dream of actually playing such a thing, just like I would never dream of playing the Texas Wobble........ so long as we make that perfectly clear.......
Richard
OK, I'll bite. Why wouldn't you use these effects?! They are very, well..., effective!

And yeah, Coltrane used alternate fingerings a lot. Also multiphonics.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
JL said:
OK, I'll bite. Why wouldn't you use these effects?! They are very, well..., effective!

And yeah, Coltrane used alternate fingerings a lot. Also multiphonics.
Repeating Coltrane's own effects is surely a bit sad. Nice to know what he did, and be able to make them, but we shouldn't copy his stuff really.
 

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And7barton said:
Repeating Coltrane's own effects is surely a bit sad. Nice to know what he did, and be able to make them, but we shouldn't copy his stuff really.
I don't agree. We're all standing on the shoulders of giants. It's no sadder than working up a "Bird lick" or aiming at a "Lester tone". Some of the very greatest learned a fair bit of their trade trying to emulate their heroes note for note and tone for tone. If Bird isn't above quoting an entire Armstrong intro in perfromance, I don't think we need to worry too much about nicking a few "Coltrane burblings". :)
 

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How you do that effect is on your right hand press down the e and d key and also the low c. Then on your left hand go back and forth between b,c,a and g. You can move the left hand in any order of notes you want. make sure on your right hand to not press down the f key because the effect will not work if you hold it down.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
sopranosaxman said:
How you do that effect is on your right hand press down the e and d key and also the low c. Then on your left hand go back and forth between b,c,a and g. You can move the left hand in any order of notes you want. make sure on your right hand to not press down the f key because the effect will not work if you hold it down.
Thanks - I'll try that one too.
 

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And7barton said:
Repeating Coltrane's own effects is surely a bit sad..
Those effects did NOT originate with Coltrane. He copied them straight up from the "Texas tenor" honkers of the day. And they got 'em maybe from some guys in the Basie band, who got 'em from someone we never heard of.........etc. Using an effect like this is no different than using the major scale or playing C to C# over an A7 chord. No one owns this stuff. I say learn it and use it in your own way.
 
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