Cleveland vs. Eastlake

I have played both Eastlake and H.N. White Super 20's, and used to own an early Eastlake.

Eastlake horns are great. After the Mark VI, they may be the best rock horn of all time. If you don't believe me, just look at the cover of Springsteen's classic Born to Run LP, and you'll see Clarence Clemmons pictured with one.

They are free-blowing horns with a BIG sound. So are the earlier Cleveland models, but the latter horns with the double-socket neck are a little more subtle and smooth, and are thus preferable for playing jazz.

They are also higher quality in terms of workmanship and materials. The Super 20 did slump in quality as soon as production moved to Eastlake, but they were so fabulous before that the Eastlake horns are still great. My 1970 Eastlake tenor (since sold) had noisier, possibly cheapier, keywork than the H.N. White models I have played. But the action was still very fast.

If you want a good description of each, visit worldwidesax.com, click on "Sarge's collection," and then scroll down to the descriptions for each of these horns (I think he owns one of each). Sarge (Steve Stransky) is a well-known sax technician, and his descriptions are pretty consistent with my experience.

BTW Eastlake Super 20's (at least those made up until 1975) are definitely better horns than Mexi-Conn's.

I am very new to the King Super 20's scene, just yesterday I acquired a 460XXX (1970 or thereabouts) Eastlake King super 20 tenor brass neck (swapping it for a Selmer Alto super action 80), it is in pretty good nick with some wear on the left hand side but all the ret is almost intact.
I am thrilled by this horn! I own a Selmer Mark VII which is a very good horn but this is way nicer in sound and feel! Mechanichs are smooth as a centerfold bottom and it has a good intonation troughout and it is way lighter (no ribs) than the Mark VII, so.....I am selling the Mark VII, I think (streamlinng...). It works very well with my blue java (no jumbo) T75 and I am even thinking of acquiring a silver neck (original or karsten gloger ?) if it would prove to improve things. I am very pleasantly surprised by this horn!

RCNELSON said:

FYI...Eastlake, Ohio is about 25 minutes of freeway driving from downtown Cleveland. There was only 1 King instrument plant. I'm guessing the same plant made both models.

Click to expand...

All known sources talk of a " move" to Eastlake, no one ever speaks of conteporarily existing of both " lines" Cleveland and/or Eastlake (even though the Cleveland was a student model...). So, no matter if the locations were near....... there must have been a move from one place to another.....

quote from saxgourmet's site "...After World War II, King introduced the legendary Super 20. The early examples were essentially Zephyr Specials with more elaborate engraving, but with a different neck. This neck, designed by Fred Meyer (U.S. Patent 2533389 granted December 12, 1950) was intended to provide more positive sealing and a lighter action, and became the trademark of the Super 20. The initial run of Super 20's had the three ring strap hook of the Zephyr Special, and mother of pearl key touches. The left hand pinky cluster was changed around serial number 300,000 and the sterling silver neck became an option around serial number 340,000. The mother of pearl touches were discontinued, but a Super 20 baritone was made available. A silver neck was standard on the baritone, and I've seen one with a sterling silver bell. The socket neck was deleted around 390,000 and at 426,000 the production was moved from Cleveland to a new facility at Eastlake, Ohio. The underslung octave mechanism was discontinued, and these horns are generally considered to be of lesser quality and not as desirable. King was losing money on every Super 20 produced, and the line was discontinued in 1975. However, there are reliable reports of Super 20 horns with high serial numbers indicating later production dates. I can only assume that these instruments were produced from left over parts inventories........."

by the way my super 20 has an underslug neck!

I visited the King factory in Eastlake in the early 1970s when it was still fairly new. Most of the guys making saxophones had been working at the old factory in Cleveland.

I love King Super 20 tenors. I own three, two from Cleveland, one from Eastlake. They are all Siver-Sonics with silver bells and necks. I'm also very familiar with two more Silver-Sonic tenors (one each, Eastlake and Cleveland) owned by another member of the CC Riders when I worked with them.

There are subtle differences, but as much from horn to horn as from factory to factory. The early double socket necks are sometimes problematic. The earlier octave mechanism sometimes gets sloppy and noisy. The most important thing is how well the saxophone was overhauled and how well it was maintained. The best ones I've played were probably Eastlakes, but I wouldn't make a choice based on the factory.

My MYSPACE MUSIC page has some photos of my Super 20 in action:

http://www.myspace.com/saxpsychosis