[deftones]

Hi folks. At the beginning of the year I picked up a late 1930s (SN C331XX) Cleveland bari that I'm really enjoying, but am having one issue - low E and F# are really flat. It could definitely be me as I'm coming back to the sax after a pretty long hiatus, but with practice the rest of the horn has fallen in line except for these two notes. I can hold the Eb key open to fix the low E, but nothing seems to get F# up in tune. If I lip it up, my embouchure is so tight that the note is weak and stuffy. Maybe a key height issue? Is it a known quirk with these old King/Clevelands? I'm using a Link HR 7 with it.

Other than that, I really dig this bari. I haven't found a ton of info on these old Cleveland baris in particular, but I'm guessing it's somewhat comparable to a Voll-True II or an early Zephyr. Seems pretty much identical to an early Zeph, but with a pinky table similar to an old Martin. Intonation issues notwithstanding, it has a huge sound and a great tone from top to bottom.

 

[dirty]

Maybe check to see if the D pad can be raised a bit. If that one is too low, it will bring both of those notes down.

Are they in tune in the upper register? Maybe the D pad's height was set to try to keep those from going sharp.

 

[milandro]

I think that before you start changing key height you should try first of all to regain or acquire a baritone embouchure, then change a few mouthpiece s and only then start thinking of modifying heights or you will find that you change things and that later on you will be off again

 

[B Flat]

I think that before you start changing key height you should try first of all to regain or acquire a baritone embouchure, then change a few mouthpiece s and only then start thinking of modifying heights or you will find that you change things and that later on you will be off again

Yes!!!!
If you haven't played Baritone before or for a while, this is where you start.
Just like when I pick up an alto.
Tuning is crap, sound is atrocious and it's gotta be the horn.
Thankfully I know it's not the horn, mouthpiece, reed, stage of the moon.

 

[saxoclese]

Both of those notes are what Curt Altarac calls "under vented" notes. That means that the first open tonehole that vents the note is followed by a closed tonehole. Key heights are especially important for these under vented notes. My method of setting key heights on all saxophones is to set the height of the F key first, and then regulation and removing lost motion automatically sets the heights of all of the other stack keys. The only manufacturer who has published recommended key heights for their instruments is Yamaha. I generally use their measurement as a starting point and make any changes from that after play testing. They specify an opening of 9.7mm for the F key on bari saxes. I would check the key opening against that and go from there. You could always tune the sax to low F# and lip every other note down. :twisted:

 

[deftones]

Are they in tune in the upper register? Maybe the D pad's height was set to try to keep those from going sharp.

They trend slightly flat in the upper register as well, but not nearly as bad as down low.

I think that before you start changing key height you should try first of all to regain or acquire a baritone embouchure, then change a few mouthpiece s and only then start thinking of modifying heights or you will find that you change things and that later on you will be off again

Good point. I should probably have more patience. Not like I'll be participating in any ensembles in the foreseeable future anyway.

 

[JayeLID]

E and F# ?

But F is OK ?

How flat, btw ?????

I am gonna also guess that, since the flatness appears in both octaves, some keyheight adjusting would help it out....but yeah, play with it a bit more for a week or two and see if as you get your embouchure in shape, things improve....

 

[bruce bailey]

I agree that the D pad is too closed and possibly opening up low C can help. One help would be to hold the Eb lever down when playing F#, F and E which will sharpen those notes.

 

[milandro]

Good point. I should probably have more patience. Not like I'll be participating in any ensembles in the foreseeable future anyway.

when people change horn they should consider the fact that their bodies retain a certain muscle memory and despite what your ears are telling you, the muscle memory is stronger than the ear embouchure connection. It takes some time to get used to the new situation and then often times one sees the body overriding the previous pre-set.