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Not much time for practicing at the moment and working while listening to King Curtis or Eddie Harris is not productive. So it better be classical and the saxophone should be a perfect instrument for that given its flexibility.

Not sure much validity there is in the story about Sax inventing the worlds must important and ingenious musical instrument to replace the violin in French military orchestras, because the latter whiny and wimping sounding instruments didn't cut it for marching bands. However, inside the concert hall, the saxophone has been a persistent loser. I personally know of two brilliant saxophonist who gave up at supporting themselves bey playing classical saxophone, because you end up impoverished regardless of how brilliant you are - the exception being a few select individuals who obtain a college or conservatory position.

OK, so assuming that my postulate that the saxophone has lost the battle for making it into symphony orchestras etc is correct, why is it that when I listen to most classical saxophone players, I tend to find that they almost all strive for this "perfected pure" tone and violin-like playing style, when they are unlikely to get anywhere with that. It is moreover boring IMO. For all the criticisms of Raaf Hekkema, at least there is some spunk and attitude. I also enjoy Henk van Twilert's Bach sonatas, and interpretations by Berliner saxophone Quartet of classical works. After that, it starts thinning out quickly.

I have been roaming around youtube, but most of it fits the former category. No vibrato whatsoever. The sound and articulation is as clean, neat, and dry-cleaned as the suit the performer is wearing. You can hear the small opening mouthpiece and 5 hardness reed before the performer plays a single note, based on looks and setting. If the saxophone per se has to sound like a violin, I might as well listen to violin or preferably Cello. Perhaps and possibly likely, it is just my inherent ignorance, but someone of you classically educated folks here, please point me to something more gutsy and entertaining to listen to. Ellington nailed it with "Three Suites". There has got to be others with similar imagination. Please give us some classical saxophone with vibrato, bent notes, growl, slap tongue, and split notes. That should leave the violin in the dust.

Thanks!
 

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Eh, you're right... Here's what you're looking for:

 

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I have rediscovered that some community band directors really do not want to hear a sax, more especially the tenors. They tolerate the alto if they are weak in other instruments. The only reason they allow a baritone sax is if they are short on low brass players. :) I use my Selmer T100 with a Selmer S80 C** mouthpiece and a Legere 3 reed. Not sure it sounds like a tenor now but the community band director is happy with my sound and I guess that is what really matters in that venue.
 

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Hmmm... and here I am trying to unlearn that clear, absolutely vibratoless tone that was ingrained in me for all of those years from elementary thru Grad School! I was a Music Ed. major at a liberal arts private college. I can tell you that having a clear classical tone was much more important than being able to do jazz riffs at least for non-saxophone performance majors! (I'll throw that caveat in as my sax professor was one helluva saxophonist and a great teacher!) Those wanting to major in sax performance would get the "full" instruction program (intense!!) For those of us resigned to be mere educators (and vocal at that!) sax lessons were much more "laid back" and enjoyable. Now, I wish I could go back and take the "intense" full course of instruction (y'know, my old prof is still giving sax lessons....)
 

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Obviously the original poster doesn't have a clue about classical music nor has hear great players like Dale Woofard, and Steven Mauk. Steven mauk's tone on soprano is to die for.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in trying to be a classical saxophonist. The technique required is amazing. But you need to be flexible, play some jazz, or be open to other styles to survive in the business. And play other instruments. If you have technique on sax, it should translate over to flute and clarinet with a little effort.

True, you aren't going to get that symphony gig because they don't generally have a saxophone position, but they might need some for a performance sometime. Or maybe that broadway musical in town needs a woodwind player....

Back on point.....I think you need to explore the classical saxophone some more. It would be like me never hearing jazz, and hearing Kenny G and making all my judgement on the whole genre based on that. And that would be stupid.
 

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Obviously the original poster doesn't have a clue about classical music...

Back on point.....I think you need to explore the classical saxophone some more. It would be like me never hearing jazz, and hearing Kenny G and making all my judgement on the whole genre based on that. And that would be stupid.
Trying to make friends? :twisted:

How 'bout offering the OP some listening/viewing options? Throwing Kenny G into your argument makes you less credible than you might imagine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the links to the posters above.

Obviously the original poster doesn't have a clue about classical music nor has hear great players like Dale Woofard, and Steven Mauk. Steven mauk's tone on soprano is to die for.
My first saxophone teacher was a student with Deffayet in Paris. Not that it has left me with any sorts of classical skills, but I have listened to a fair amount of classical saxophone. So you judgement is a bit off. That said, I will acknowledge that my original post was intentionally slightly provoking - but thanks for the names. I will check them out.

There is absolutely nothing wrong in trying to be a classical saxophonist.
No, quite the contrary - it is admirable.

The technique required is amazing.
Sure is. My point is that it should't prevent one from achieving a distinctive voice or use the immense flexibility that is inherent to the saxophone and some other woodwind instruments.

True, you aren't going to get that symphony gig because they don't generally have a saxophone position, but they might need some for a performance sometime. Or maybe that broadway musical in town needs a woodwind player....
For that you give the audience what they want.

Back on point.....I think you need to explore the classical saxophone some more.
I am trying to explore classical saxophone some more. Hence the request. (Rewind to post #1)
 

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The only reason that there's no sax in the orchestra is that the composer didn't write for it, whether because they didn't need that particular tone color, or the sax hadn't been invented.

Most successful classical music players of other instruments are good, but not stellar. Except for a few virtuosos they're either support players or tutti-pickers. I think my idea of a musical factory hell would be to play in a section of ten ____ instruments, all playing the same part.
 

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The original poster is absolutely right (and I think he'd be making an equally valid point for jazz saxophone of the last 30 years - with exceptions, of course). Saxophones attempting to be what they are not (those posts of Tanaka actually prove the poster right, I think) leads to a failure in aesthetics. Also, looking to the orchestra (or GOD FORBID wind bands) for acceptance also inevitably leads to a failure.

Anyone who thinks saxophone is still seen as an outside instrument lives in the past. Saxophones in new music, particularly in the last 40 years, is standard. It is not seen as some sort of stereotypical jazz sound/influence except to the most nearsighted of composers. That being said, you don't need to have advanced techniques in the music in order for saxophone to have its place.

- Grisey's Quatre chants pour franchir le seuil - one of the most compelling pieces of the 20th century, complete with two saxophones in the orchestra

- the other end of the spectrum, with many things in addition to the techniques you mention
 

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Surely it is a matter of taste, my favourite instruments include classical saxophone and piano (not necessarily together, of course). To me the sound isn't boring at all but if you don't like, you don't like it. I agree with Sean P, the saxophone is now an accepted instrument within classical music.
Unfortunately some composers still use the saxophone in classical music because of its apparent jazz or even 'sleezy' associations, which reinforces a lot of people's image of the instrument.
 

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the answer has to be......." Only if you don't like classical music ".
Oh I don't agree there. I like classical music a lot but I would have to admit that listening to classical sax is sometimes like watching a dog walk on its hind legs. One is initially impressed by the skill being demonstrated but it gets a bit tedious after about 5 minutes.

That is probably a bit provocative, so let me just say "sorry" in advance if anyone takes umbrage. :)
 

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Oh I don't agree there. I like classical music a lot but I would have to admit that listening to classical sax is sometimes like watching a dog walk on its hind legs. One is initially impressed by the skill being demonstrated but it gets a bit tedious after about 5 minutes.

That is probably a bit provocative, so let me just say "sorry" in advance if anyone takes umbrage. :)
I agree... I feel the same way about a lot of jazz performances.
 

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as it happens, I am not a regular listener to classical Sax but I do buy classical SAX CD's and I occasionally listen to it. There are , of course, many types of " classical" music and many types of musicians.

You can indeed listen to a more or less traditional saxophone player and listen to a repertoire which appeals you more or less.
There are many more or less orthodox ways to play the saxophone within a " classical "context.

I am sure that you can find something if you look for it!


 
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