[Peter B]

I'm arranging a piece of music for my sax quartet. It's all pretty routine so far, but I've got a bar which is a bit of a puzzle. The top stave is treble clef the others are bass clef and and are in concert C major. As you can see the chords are labeled Bbmaj7, Cmaj7 and Bbmaj7, but this doesn't match the notation. The first and third chords look more like a C7+9 with the 7th in the bass and the middle chord looks like a D7 with an added 2nd, again with the 7th in the bass.

What am I missing here?

 

[RootyTootoot]

I think you are correct and the chords are mislabelled because of the bass note. A quick way to check would be to play the sequence as Bbmaj7 Cmaj7 Bbmaj7 and then compare it with your analysis (ie C7/D7/C7) played with the root in the bass rather than the 7th. I think your idea even with the root in the bass will still sound nearer to the correct sound for that part of the music.

I could be wrong. That wouldn't be unprecedented.

 

[evan1]

First Chord is a C9 with the Dominant 7 in the root. Second chord is a D9 with the Dominant 7 in the root. Third Chord is as first. Exactly as you analysed it to be.

 

[Peter B]

Thanks for your thoughts and your help.

As a self-taught amateur my arranging abilities go only so far and I do hit snags like this from time to time, especially with music which is a bit 'off the wall' as this is.

I put the C7+9, D7+9, C7+9 into my notation software with the root in the bass and it is more appealing to the ear than the original, especially going to the next chord which appears to be correctly labelled and notated as Amaj7 with the A root in the base and with C#,E,G# in the treble clef but again with an added B natural 9th. I say it's more pleasing to the ear, but I'm not sure that this music is supposed to be!!

I'm not sure how far I'm going to persue this project, but thanks again for your help anyway.

 

[Roger Aldridge]

Peter,

I see this voicing in a different way. It's actually very simple when one takes into account higher tensions of a chord. The notes are (top down) #11, 9, 6 (or 13), 3, and 1. The inner voicing in 4ths (C, G, D on Bb mj 7) is a nice touch. #11 on a major 7 chord is nothing new.....easily goes back to 1941 with Ellington and Strayhorn. To my ears, it gives a brighter and richer sound to a major 7th. I use it, along with the other higher tensions, a lot in my writing.

Roger

 

[Roger Aldridge]

PS... Also look at this voicing from the standpiont of their intervalic relationships. In effect it's like a mirror from top to bottom. That is, the top interval is a major 3rd and the bottom interval is also a major third. Then, between them there are two perfect 4th intervals. One can take harmonic structures based on intervalic relationships in all kinds of directions...including some that go beyond conventional harmony. For example, Gil Evans appears to have been influenced by Bela Bartok in this respect. I've studied some of Gil's voicings that defy conventional harmonic analysis....but, they make sense with their intervalic relationships. Going back further, I've seen some Duke Ellington voicings that cause me to scratch my head and ask "what is THAT?". This is a really great voicing that you brought to us, Peter!

 

[JohnGalt]

If the lowest notes must be considered "roots", then they are simply lydian voicings with a nice 4th-sy inner structure (Bb chord with Cmajor triad upper structure voicing).

 

[Roger Aldridge]

One of the cool things about harmonic analysis is there can be different ways to wrap our heads around a structure or voicing. It's kind of like the eye of the beholder. In this respect, it's NOT a matter of one analysis being right and another being wrong....as long as they work. When we go beyond conventional chord tones (with 7ths and 9ths) that's when it becomes especially fun and creative.

 

[DanPerezSax]

A few things could be:
- You're right and they are mislabeled.
- There wasn't enough room to put the tensions in the chord symbol and the copyist got lazy.
- The notes on the staff are wrong.
- The keys are the only one adding color to that part of the arrangement using tensions, and they are neither included in the the other voices nor important to the harmonic/melodic structure throughout the form of the tune.

My advice is to just keep playing it on the keys or listen to a band play the original a few times and determine what the predominant SOUND is like, THEN come up with the voicings and chord symbols. Remember, this is music! The SOUND is the thing!

 

[Wagspdx]

They're simplified notations for extension chords, like when you might indicate D-7 but you really expect most will voice a D-9 (or even something more interesting). You could more correctly call them Bb maj9#11, C maj9#11 if you wanted to be more specific. Since I'm more of a piano player then a sax player I tend to visualize chords on the keyboard, and for me it's easier to think of these as polychords, triads over triads - C/Bb, D/C. They work as a I chord.

 

[Matt Otto]

Looks like fine/normal jazz voicings to me... Bb major w 13 9 and #11, C major w 13 9 #11 and back to Bb w 13 9 #11... not sure if I'm missing somthing...

 

[Peter B]

I've learned so much from this thread. The great thing about SOTW is that relative novices can come in here and get fantastic views and opinions from vastly more experienced musicians.........and learn something. Thanks again everyone.

Of course an added problem I have in trying to arrange for sax quartet is that I have only four notes to play with!! If the music's pretty conventional and I have polychords then I'll normally aim to leave out the 5ths but with jazz chords like these it's difficult to know where the essence of it lies. So I just use my little rollerpiano keyboard to play with any four notes from however many and listen to it. It's an empirical approach rather than a harmonic analysis approach for sure, but it usually gets me there in the end.