Chicago Jazz Series - Colors are a massive price difference?

6720 Views 37 Replies 14 Participants Last post by Canadiain, Sep 11, 2007

Ferret

Discussion Starter · Jun 27, 2007

2

Can anyone fill me in as to what the difference is between:
http://www.wwbw.com/LA-Sax-Chicago-Jazz-Series-Alto-Sax-(Closeout)-i98060.music

and

http://www.wwbw.com/LA-Sax-Chicago-Jazz-Series-Alto-Sax-(Closeout)-i146223.music

Beyond just the color?

Thanks much!

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Migraine777

· #2 · Jun 27, 2007

If you'll notice, the retail on these horns are nearly all the same. Therefore you price is reflective of 1 of 2 things:

A.) The manufacturer is offering incentives to the dealer to move the seemingly less-expensive models....

or

B.) The black, more expensive model is in higher demand and therefore demanding a premium in the current market.

...or a combination of the two....=)

I work for American Honda, so I deal with these kinds of things all day...=P

- Pat

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saxymanzach

· #3 · Jun 27, 2007

All items on closeout on WWBW are subject to stange pricing. I was looking at some Berg Larsen mouthpieces on there yesterday and a 130/1 was $79.99, while the 130/3 was $99.99 and all of the others were up in the $120+ range.

I forgot that these horns existed, but I heard that they are real players.

hgiles

· #4 · Jun 27, 2007

These horns were B&S stencils. Great horns, great price, but I doubt WWBW has anymore since B&S stop making saxophones more than a year ago.

I have a tenor in black nickel and a gold lacquer alto.

Your first pic looks like an "Earthtone", The second is the black nickel with silver plated keywork. They are great European made instruments -- in my mind better than anything out of Taiwan and China and rivaling the standards of Japan and other European makes.

saxymanzach

· #5 · Jun 27, 2007

Well, they are on closeout on WWBW, so they must have some left, unless they are selling horns that don't exist...Does Dave Guardala own WWBW? :twisted:

Ferret

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jun 27, 2007

hgiles said:
These horns were B&S stencils. Great horns, great price, but I doubt WWBW has anymore since B&S stop making saxophones more than a year ago.

Well their site says in stock, and it took my order. Hopefully it'll come through for me. Everywhere I read it says these are really good instruments. Lets hope it works out. :]

For ~800 cheaper, I can live with the earthtone model which doesn't QUITE look as nice as the black.

Ferret

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jun 27, 2007

saxymanzach said:
Well, they are on closeout on WWBW, so they must have some left, unless they are selling horns that don't exist...Does Dave Guardala own WWBW? :twisted:

I went ahead and placed my order.... it seems this will take my $$ the farthest to get an instrument I can play for a good amount of time, as everywhere I read says good things about this model.

As a side note: They really retailed for ~$6k?

bfoster64

· #8 · Jun 27, 2007

If you got the earthtone for $1150, you got a great deal.

Ruediger Kramer

· #9 · Jun 27, 2007

Ferret said:
Can anyone fill me in as to what the difference is

nothing about the prices, but:

the sandlasted is B & S and made in Germany

maybe the black alto is not B & S and wasn´t made in Germany

saxymanzach

· #10 · Jun 27, 2007

Ferret said:
I went ahead and placed my order.... it seems this will take my $$ the farthest to get an instrument I can play for a good amount of time, as everywhere I read says good things about this model.

As a side note: They really retailed for ~$6k?

No, the "retail price" is pretty much just for show. Nobdy really sels it that high. No reputable dealer would price it that high.

Rackety Sax

· #11 · Jun 28, 2007

Ruediger Kramer said:
nothing about the prices, but:

the sandlasted is B & S and made in Germany

maybe the black alto is not B & S and wasn´t made in Germany

I have one of the black nickel altos with silver-plated keys as displayed in the second picture. It is definitely a German-made B&S stencil.

In terms of new availability of these - 6 months or so I contacted JA Music in Elkhart and they still had some of them in stock. Perhaps they decided to dump them to the nearby mega-retailer WWBW.

The site seems to be broken at the moment, but I wonder if they also have the Medusa Goldbrass for sale.

Ferret

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jun 28, 2007

bfoster64 said:
If you got the earthtone for $1150, you got a great deal.

Yeah, that's the one I decided on... that's great to hear. :]

Radjammin

· #13 · Jun 28, 2007

I actually got one of them and tried it out at home, I got the black nickel one, I returned it. I actually wrote up a review on the site, guess when they sold out that stock they removed it?

I think the price difference is just reflective of what they have in stock. Thy must have alot of the earthtone left.

I ended up getting a Cannonball Black Nickel. It just had a bigger sound. But if you want feedback on the horn, if the earthtone plays as well as the black nickel that's a great new horn for the price. I think I paid 1450 for the Black one at the time and it was on closeout then? For me the keywork was too close to the body, seem to restrict the sound. But the action and the work on the silver keys was excellent. I just remember the silver being as silvery as my silver with my china set, very rich looking. Not trying to sell a horn I didn't buy, just saying I thought it was a quality horn, even if it wasn't right for me.

Dr G

· #14 · Jun 28, 2007

Key heights are easily adjusted. Maybe you were rash to send it back so quickly.

pth

· #15 · Jun 28, 2007

You might not want to be too rash about adjusting the key heights either. I was going to have that done until I got used to the setup. At first it seemed stuffy compare to my Mk VI. The VI key heights seem to be about 20% higher. So it was much more free blowing. But once I got used to the CJS and started to blow through the resistance, the Mk VI began to seem a little sloppy tonally. The intonation is excellent on the CJS. Playing the Viola scale studies which use a lot of chromatic leading/neighbor tone is really nice because playing with a well defined pitch is so easy. There is a lot of power in these horns once you overcome the resistance due to the lower keys.

Radjammin, I know what you are talking about though. My initial reaction was the same. I have played three of these - unlacquered, gold lacquer, and black nickel with silver keys. Any I preferred them in that order. I am not sure that the finish had anything to do with it, but maybe it does... In terms of looks, I preferred them in the opposite order.

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hgiles

· #16 · Jun 28, 2007

re: key heights, I had a Medusa GB tenor and still have a black nickel CJS tenor. The Medusa was expertly set up but had lower key heights than CJS, it felt better (faster) but didn't have the response of the horn with the slightly higher key heights.

Subtle difference that could have been overcome with a slight adjustment, but I decided they were so close that it didn't really matter anyway, so I sold the Medusa. The new owner likes it well enough.

Rackety Sax

· #17 · Jun 28, 2007

To answer your original question - what's the difference - I think only the finish. But don't confuse that with "color". Correct me if I'm wrong (as if I need to ask :twisted

but I assume the Black Nickel is actually plating, and the keys are definitely silver-plated (triple-silver plated it says on the site). My guess is that the BN horns originally had somewhat of a premium on them due to the plating, but nothing like the difference you are seeing on the WWBW prices now. Probably they have 2 BN horns and 30 of the sandblast, or something of that nature, that accounts for the difference.

Incidentally, I didn't see the goldbrass Medusas on the site, so maybe these turned up from another source. Who knows, maybe they found them in their own warehouse.

Rackety Sax

· #18 · Jun 28, 2007

Another "oh by the way" - the site clearly says they are "in stock and ready to ship."

Radjammin

· #19 · Jun 28, 2007

pth said:
You might not want to be too rash about adjusting the key heights either. I was going to have that done until I got used to the setup. At first it seemed stuffy compare to my Mk VI. The VI key heights seem to be about 20% higher. So it was much more free blowing. But once I got used to the CJS and started to blow through the resistance, the Mk VI began to seem a little sloppy tonally. The intonation is excellent on the CJS. Playing the Viola scale studies which use a lot of chromatic leading/neighbor tone is really nice because playing with a well defined pitch is so easy. There is a lot of power in these horns once you overcome the resistance due to the lower keys.

For me, I have a great respect for designers. If that's how they designed it I have to assume that it must be the optimal way for the client they are trying to service. I don't enjoy significantly altering a horns design(like changing the key height) I mean what if I go and alter the key hight and I still don't like it? Well I have a one of a kind, that anyone that does like the CJS is probably not going to like. That's my take on it. It needs to play out of the box like I like it. I can say I liked my cannonball the first time I played it. It felt, weighed, and sounded exactly what I wanted.

Rackety Sax

· #20 · Jun 29, 2007

To give everyone a better idea what the black nickel ones look like...

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