[SAXISMYAXE]

I was wondering if anyone out there can tell me what horn and setup Charlie Ventura used- especially around the late 1940's and earlie 50's? I can't remember ever seeing this in print, or posted anywhere. Cheers. Mike Semann.

 

[Dig Gonsalves]

I dig Charlie. Can't answer your question though.

Nice to see a new affordable 4-disk box out. Can't resist another plug for Georgie Auld either!

 

[PB]

Judging from a photo from 1949 he played a King S20 and a Hollywood Dukoff CV special. Before that he played a SBA........

 

[SAXISMYAXE]

Thanks for the answer! I guess Charlie, Bird, and Cannonball all knew a good thing when they heard it!

 

[sanchophone]

There is so little info about Charlie Ventura. I did not know anything about him until reading about the fact that the Barone Hollywood is based on a Dukoff Charlie Ventura Hollywood Dukoff, called CV special. I then asked for some info on the mouthpiece here http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=51869&highlight=Dukoff+ventura but there was no much feedback about this specific piece. Recently I was very lucky and got a Dukoff CV 7 in an amazing condition from an italian guy. It's a very elegant and easy playing piece with a very interesting short rollover baffle, large link like chamber and, apparently, a very long facing.

Well going back to the player and not the mouthpiece I post this video of Ventura with Gene Krupa that I just found on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UR5DiLc08Y

I do not understand why there is so little discussion in SOTW about Ventura. IMHO he seems to be an aboslute master. I found intersting his cuban influence although he is not playing latin music. He was born in Philadelphia according to Wikipedia, but his surname is definitely latino.

Does anyone know more about him?

 

[ZenBen]

Nice clip. I've never heard him play before. I'll have to go buy one of his recordings. Anyone got any suggestions?

 

[divisi]

Thanks for the answer! I guess Charlie, Bird, and Cannonball all knew a good thing when they heard it!

Don't forget Johnny Griffin. I personally think he had a better sound when
he was playing the super 20.

 

[BarrySachs]

He did indeed play a "Super"20. I have seen 1940's era King ads where he endorses the Zepher Special.

 

[xax]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UR5DiLc08Y

Now that's what I'm talkin bout!

sanchophone, Thanks for the Youtube.

I do not understand why there is so little discussion in SOTW about Ventura. IMHO he seems to be an aboslute master. I found intersting his cuban influence although he is not playing latin music. He was born in Philadelphia according to Wikipedia, but his surname is definitely latino.

Does anyone know more about him?

I had a music teacher a coupla years ago (a real old-timer in NH) who always said that Charlie Ventura was the greatest sax player ever was. Also, said that he was the only white player ever to lead Duke's band... Don't know 'xactly what all that means. I'd never heard him before this but I gotta agree that he's definitely a baad*ss tenor.

 

[Tim Price]

There is so little info about Charlie Ventura. I did not know anything about him until reading about the fact that the Barone Hollywood is based on a Dukoff Charlie Ventura Hollywood Dukoff, called CV special. I then asked for some info on the mouthpiece here http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=51869&highlight=Dukoff+ventura but there was no much feedback about this specific piece. Recently I was very lucky and got a Dukoff CV 7 in an amazing condition from an italian guy. It's a very elegant and easy playing piece with a very interesting short rollover baffle, large link like chamber and, apparently, a very long facing.

Wekk going back to the player and not the mouthpiece I post this video of Ventura with Gene Krupa that I just found on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UR5DiLc08Y

I do not understand why there is so little discussion in SOTW about Ventura. IMHO he seems to be an aboslute master. I found intersting his cuban influence although he is not playing latin music. He was born in Philadelphia according to Wikipedia, but his surname is definitely latino.

Does anyone know more about him?

Ventura was a fountain of originality.

The re- issue; Mosaic Box set of Charlie Ventura/Flip Phillips
Clef Studio Sessions. Charlie Ventura plays on this one..Alto ,Tenor,Bari and Bass saxes.And sounds absolutly AMAZINGLY great !! Anyone who knows me well,knows I am a Ventura fan from the git-go.His passion,sense of adventure and enthusiam has been a big inspiration to me.This is stuff from early 50's and the sideman are stellar.E.G-Buddy Rich,Chubby Jackson,Jo Jones.If you get this set-check out Ventura playing the blues.He had a story to tell.

MODERN TO A HUGE DEGREE and very under rated.
Ventura was as heavy as they come.


http://www.cdconnection.com/cd_and_dvd/search/charlie_ventura?source=adwords

 

[SAXISMYAXE]

I certainly dig Charlie, which explains my initial inquiry, but whether he was the "greatest" tenorman ever is definitely a matter of opinion!

Regarding his heritage, I believe I read a long time ago that he was of Italian descent, but don't quote me on that.

Thanks for all of the posts, and the great Youtube link as well!

Keep em' coming.

 

[jgreiner]

Thanks much for the YouTube link! That's the first time I've ever seen footage of CV. He certainly had TONS of soul.

Not to split this thread into another guy, but someone I've always been a huge fan of, especially his early stuff with Artie Shaw, was Georgie Auld.
I'm not familiar with his later stuff.....solo albums, etc., but those early Shaw recordings from the late 30's with him and Tony Pastor on tenors are THE shiznit. Especially his sound......HUGE.

John

 

[sideC]

I used to see Charlie Ventura around Philly near the end of his life, maybe the late '80s, early '90s? It was a long time ago, so my memory of the date deal is fogged. I remember he came to a gig I was working with a good Philly big band and I was playing a solo feature that I had with the band, "I Remember Bird". I took a long cadenza at the end, and spying Charlie in the audience, I was able to work in of his hit tunes of the '40s, into my cadenza. It was very rewarding to see CV's face light up when I did this. One of those wonderful moments which makes being a jazz musician worth all of the dues one must endure.

I can't remember the name of the tune I quoted, I can hear it clearly in my head at this moment, but it was from a band Charlie lead in the late '40s, called "Charlie Ventura and his Bop for the People". Anyone remember this? I can't remember the rhythm section, but the front line was Charlie on tenor, Bennie Green on 'bone, and Jackie Cain and Roy Kral on hip bebop vocals. Man, this band was hip! I still have the old 78s in my basement. As a matter of fact, I took off their arangement of "Lullaby of Rhythm" for my little big band.

I believe that Charlie Ventura suffered from the non recognisement, non apreciation that goes on here in the US for our own cultural and artistic gift to the entire world. Near the end of his life, his playing career was curtailed by dental problems, he couldn't afford to get his teeth fixed so that he could play his horn and maintain his livelyhood. When I met him, his head seemed to be on straight, he seemed to be in physically good standing, he couldn't play because of the condition of his mouth. It's very sad that he couldn't get help before it was too late.

 

[John Tenor]

If it helps, he recorded an album with with Jackie Cain and Roy Kral in I think the early 50's with Chubby Jackson Bass, Bill de Arango Guitar, Dave Tough Drums and Ralph Burns Piano. Bill Harris was on Tmb and Charlie Shavers Tpt.

Incidentally, does anyone recall Paul Quinichette ("Vice Pres") and Bobby Dukoff himself on Tenors from the same period?

 

[Tim Price]

SNIP [ [ I believe that Charlie Ventura suffered from the non recognisement, non apreciation that goes on here in the US for our own cultural and artistic gift to the entire world. Near the end of his life, his playing career was curtailed by dental problems, he couldn't afford to get his teeth fixed so that he could play his horn .

jp- Your right about this country...via artists.

I was the one who helped Chas Ventura with the teeth stuff. I'm proud of it too...I ran a FUND for him; got a friend who was a dental surgon to dump his 4 implants and we ran a FUND so he could get false teeth. There was a huge article in Philly Inq.' years ago about it. It was called a " Gift Of Teeth For A Gifted Man". It was cool...Charlie called me and asked me why I did it. I proudly told him- YOUR MY HERO CHARLIE. His daughter and son laid some great pics of him on me when he passed. I did it cuz I had to JP..I had to. This guy was a legend....beautiful cat. When he was down for the count in the hospital- I got him some great foot warmer slipper socks. His kids dug that their dad was REALLY somebody. And- He was. Ask some of my students- I got pics of VENTURA on my walls...on the " boardwalk" blowin'.
HE WAS GREAT....without him NONE of us woulda ever rocked the house with bop.

THAT CAT Jules....was something else. He broght a LOT of guys into this biz as sidemen- EG- Doc Severinson, Ed Shauntessy, Jakie And Roy, lots of guys.
A HERO.....to say the least.
And who played hipper BASS SAX???

Hans Dulfer has every Charlie Ventura record ever- he has stuff I had to get too- the coolest records C.V air checks and all....and you'd be surprized man at the HISTORY in Europe about him. PHILLY should have a statue of him in the center city....he was a deep player. After all how many cats could hang with BIRD!?!??!?!?!?!?
The word FANTASTIC applys when Chas finished a solo.

And- How 'bout that crazy Selmer with the TEA KETTLE OCTAVE KEY??
Very cool.

And while we're at it J.P- How about one of the greats from Philly Bootsie Barnes. Or- John Glenn.
And- Middy. And of couse - Odean and Carl and Earl Grubbs.

 

[odsum25]

And one thing a lot of people don't know about Charlie is that he was a helluva bari player. I can't think of any of the albums off the top of my head, but I'll go look on my Ipod later.

 

[xax]

And while we're at it J.P- How about one of the greats from Philly Bootsie Barnes. Or- John Glenn.
And- Middy. And of couse - Odean and Carl and Earl Grubbs.

If you go by the cats and the sounds that came outta there, then Philly must be the mos heaviest city in the world!

About CV... my teacher said Charlie played in his 8 piece band outta Manchester NH for a while towards the end. He said CV always ragged on him saying that he wasn't truly a jazz musician, unless he had a beard. So there he was when I first hooked up with him a couple years ago(my Teacher), an 80+ year old guy, suffering the effects of a stroke; arthritic, using a walker but wearing his goatee in honor of CV! I don't know enough to judge but Roland(my teacher) had HUGE music knowledge, so I didn't take his comment lightly.

Tim Price, Do you know anything about a Phiily tenor cat named Joe Sewell who played with Tiny Grimes? Later, he went with a 50's Philly R&B band called "The Nite Riders", that included my late friend Vann Walls on keys.

 

[sideC]

jp- Your right about this country...via artists.

I was the one who helped Chas Ventura with the teeth stuff. I'm proud of it too...I ran a FUND for him; got a friend who was a dental surgon to dump his 4 implants and we ran a FUND so he could get false teeth. There was a huge article in Philly Inq.' years ago about it. It was called a " Gift Of Teeth For A Gifted Man". It was cool...Charlie called me and asked me why I did it. I proudly told him- YOUR MY HERO CHARLIE. His daughter and son laid some great pics of him on me when he passed. I did it cuz I had to JP..I had to. This guy was a legend....beautiful cat. When he was down for the count in the hospital- I got him some great foot warmer slipper socks. His kids dug that their dad was REALLY somebody. And- He was. Ask some of my students- I got pics of VENTURA on my walls...on the " boardwalk" blowin'.
HE WAS GREAT....without him NONE of us woulda ever rocked the house with bop.

THAT CAT Jules....was something else. He broght a LOT of guys into this biz as sidemen- EG- Doc Severinson, Ed Shauntessy, Jakie And Roy, lots of guys.
A HERO.....to say the least.
And who played hipper BASS SAX???

Hans Dulfer has every Charlie Ventura record ever- he has stuff I had to get too- the coolest records C.V air checks and all....and you'd be surprized man at the HISTORY in Europe about him. PHILLY should have a statue of him in the center city....he was a deep player. After all how many cats could hang with BIRD!?!??!?!?!?!?
The word FANTASTIC applys when Chas finished a solo.

And- How 'bout that crazy Selmer with the TEA KETTLE OCTAVE KEY??
Very cool.

And while we're at it J.P- How about one of the greats from Philly Bootsie Barnes. Or- John Glenn.
And- Middy. And of couse - Odean and Carl and Earl Grubbs.

Tim, I remember that fund! I was running around NYC with John Simon, and he told me about a fund that was happening, raising money to get Charlie's dental work done. I didn't know that you were behind it. Man, that was a beautiful thing to do.

Man, I miss Middy and John Glenn! Those cats could play. I got to call Bootsie, and I just ran into Larry McKenna, he was rehearsing for a cd project with my Tavern On The Green pianist, Don Edmonds.

The beat goes on.

 

[citizn cane]

Man that clip slays me...the tone (that one low note speaks volumes about this guy's command), the phrasing, Krupa's musicality & showmanship (a drummer friend of mine's gonna flip when he sees this)! Thanks for posting that.

 

[louielouie]

charlie ventura was one helluva nice guy to!